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Ron Hunter  
#1 Posted : 04 July 2017 09:52:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Opinions please!

We have simple (steam) appliances such as autoclaves (glorified pressure cookers - also made by Prestige) and some people here are getting awfully excited about independent competent persons creating written schemes of examination, testing pressure relief valves, etc.

I'm of the opinion that a supervisory input to check that those conducting visual checks/ undertaking maintenance are doing it correctly, in accordance with manufacturer's instructions etc.; along with a suitable visual exam. (by a technician) would satisfy the WSE requirements for these simple systems. Thoughts?

A Kurdziel  
#2 Posted : 04 July 2017 11:10:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Autoclaves definitely come under the Pressure Systems Safety Regulations 2000.   Ours do. Look at the definition of a pressure system and in particular of a “relevant fluid” – which in this case means steam at whatever pressure.

Ron Hunter  
#3 Posted : 04 July 2017 12:26:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

No argument that the PSSR apply, I'm only looking to apply a proportionate and pragmatic approach to simple systems?

Jane Blunt  
#4 Posted : 04 July 2017 12:37:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

I would expect an independent test and inspection myself. Autoclaves are potentially very dangerous, and you need more than a visual examination. We had all our pressure systems (and in my department I had more than 200 items) inspected by engineers from the engineering arm of an insurance company. It was not unusual for an autoclave to fail and need attention before the certificate was issued. Autoclaves always had a check at pressure to see that the relife valve actually lifted at the correct pressure.

A Kurdziel  
#5 Posted : 04 July 2017 12:41:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Well the regs are clear; Regulation 8- Written scheme of examination:

“The user of an installed system … shall not operate the system or allow it to be operated unless he has a written scheme for the periodic examination, by a competent person…,” The  ACoP para 97-99 define what competent person is but even for a minor system (see ACoP for a definition) they are required to have  “At least one member of staff qualified to incorporated engineer level with adequate relevant experience and knowledge of the law, codes of practice, examination and inspection techniques and understanding of the effects of operation for the system concerned.”

Ron Hunter  
#6 Posted : 04 July 2017 13:20:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

I'm going to make a bold statement and suggest that the greater majority of employers who have simple pressure vessels in the workplace will not have an IEng qualified member of staff. They will more usually have access to suitable competency via their Insurers?

The type of autoclave I'm dealing with doesn't enable testing of the PRV (or it might be a bursting disc) function.

Ron Hunter  
#7 Posted : 04 July 2017 14:45:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Aha! Appendix 4 of L122 provides the context I was after. Thanks folks.

Hsquared14  
#8 Posted : 04 July 2017 15:27:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hsquared14

Just as an aside - some years back I did a lot of work with Dentists and Vetinary surgeries that have usually multiple autoclaves that are in almost constant use.  The company I worked for sought clarification on the application of the regs to such autoclaves and discovered that a generic written scheme from the manufacturer was acceptable but that they still needed examination and testing by a competent person (insurance engineer?) as per the regulations.   Incidentally at that time I saw many cheap autoclaves that were imported from  Germany (made in various Asians countries but marketed by a German supplier) that didn't complay with the regulations at all and could be opened while still under full temperature and pressure.  I witnessed this happen in a vetinary surgery and the vetinary nurse involved suffered severe scalds to her hands, arms and face.  Moral - check the manual very carefully.

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