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David T  
#1 Posted : 13 July 2017 14:28:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
David T

Hi

Could anyone please advise me on the effectiveness of safety signs in preventing accidents and stopping unsafe acts etc? 

I was once told in a seminar that safety signage is only one percent effective? 

Regards

David T

RayRapp  
#2 Posted : 13 July 2017 15:20:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Safety signs have a limited effect but could not say to what extent they are or are not effective - I suspect the one percent is an arbitrary figure. A sign might be noticed by an adult but would a child take any notice? So the moral of the story is not too rely too much on signage for alerting hazards when other controls may be more effective.

A Kurdziel  
#3 Posted : 13 July 2017 15:26:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Surprisingly I can't see any research on this from the HSE.

There might be some research elsewhere but you need to be careful and think about things like the education level of the workforce, whether they can read English( or whatever language you are using)  and what the overall attitude to H&S is ( see the thread entitled “ How to solve crazy behaviour in Vietnam?!”).

You can’t really put a number on it. I suspect that  in some workplaces the old tired safety sign that have been on the walls for years which is routinely ignored is totally ineffective but in a more positive workplace, a safety sign can be a useful reminder of what people are required to  eg put on safety glasses in a particular location to do a particular job.  

Roundtuit  
#4 Posted : 13 July 2017 20:26:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Always treated this as the frst task at a new employment - rip down all the old signs e.g. no-smoking within a work premises (when did smoke free work place legislation arrive)

Then consult with the workforce about appropriate signage rather than the wall paper some well meaning but miss-informed soul saw as "doing their job"

Regarding percentages I would venture less than one percent - work place blindness which many see as the new broom when a fresh pair of eyes arrive at site means many incumbents have stopped seeing the message

Try this test - find a work station or equipment peppered with signs, stop the employee and with their back to their workplace ask them to name all the posted signage - not a trick question as they will be aware of the hazards the signs advise just that through familiarity they no longer see the signage

Conversley if you remove some signs when no one is looking watch their puzzlement the following morning as they see something has changed but they can't identify what as the machine still works as it did before

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Roundtuit  
#5 Posted : 13 July 2017 20:26:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Always treated this as the frst task at a new employment - rip down all the old signs e.g. no-smoking within a work premises (when did smoke free work place legislation arrive)

Then consult with the workforce about appropriate signage rather than the wall paper some well meaning but miss-informed soul saw as "doing their job"

Regarding percentages I would venture less than one percent - work place blindness which many see as the new broom when a fresh pair of eyes arrive at site means many incumbents have stopped seeing the message

Try this test - find a work station or equipment peppered with signs, stop the employee and with their back to their workplace ask them to name all the posted signage - not a trick question as they will be aware of the hazards the signs advise just that through familiarity they no longer see the signage

Conversley if you remove some signs when no one is looking watch their puzzlement the following morning as they see something has changed but they can't identify what as the machine still works as it did before

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Sgallacher27 on 13/07/2017(UTC), Sgallacher27 on 13/07/2017(UTC)
chris42  
#6 Posted : 14 July 2017 09:22:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

Always treated this as the frst task at a new employment - rip down all the old signs e.g. no-smoking within a work premises (when did smoke free work place legislation arrive)

Regardless of our personal thoughts, as far as I was aware it is still a legal requirement to display  no smoking signs at the entrances of smoke free premises.

Isn’t it ?

HSSnail  
#7 Posted : 14 July 2017 09:31:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Try Goggling the term “Safety Sign Blindness” quite a few papers etc on the effectiveness (or lack off) of signage. Sadly some are still compulsory (Like the No Smoking sign at the entrance!) But I have always tried to limit the none statutory ones and change them about to keep the message fresh.

Roundtuit  
#8 Posted : 14 July 2017 09:35:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

At the entrances - yes

Within the premises - no

Since the introduction of Smoke Free legislation ten years ago wholly unecessary duplication and more materials to maintain

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Roundtuit  
#9 Posted : 14 July 2017 09:35:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

At the entrances - yes

Within the premises - no

Since the introduction of Smoke Free legislation ten years ago wholly unecessary duplication and more materials to maintain

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chris42 on 14/07/2017(UTC), chris42 on 14/07/2017(UTC)
AndyJB  
#10 Posted : 14 July 2017 10:01:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
AndyJB

Regardless of our personal thoughts, as far as I was aware it is still a legal requirement to display  no smoking signs at the entrances of smoke free premises.

Isn’t it ?

No, Not since 1/10/2012 have no smoking signs needed to be displayed at the entrance. Regs were changed so now at least 1 legible no-smoking sign must still be displayed but owners and managers are now free to decide the size, design and location of the signs.

chris42  
#11 Posted : 14 July 2017 10:07:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Originally Posted by: AndyJB Go to Quoted Post

Regardless of our personal thoughts, as far as I was aware it is still a legal requirement to display  no smoking signs at the entrances of smoke free premises.

Isn’t it ?

No, Not since 1/10/2012 have no smoking signs needed to be displayed at the entrance. Regs were changed so now at least 1 legible no-smoking sign must still be displayed but owners and managers are now free to decide the size, design and location of the signs.

Thanks

What legislation changed it please.

Cheers

Chris

Roundtuit  
#12 Posted : 14 July 2017 10:13:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/change-to-no-smoking-signs-regulations

S.I. 2012 No 1536

Edited by user 14 July 2017 11:34:10(UTC)  | Reason: Fat Finger Syndrome typed SI as 1356

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Roundtuit  
#13 Posted : 14 July 2017 10:13:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/change-to-no-smoking-signs-regulations

S.I. 2012 No 1536

Edited by user 14 July 2017 11:34:10(UTC)  | Reason: Fat Finger Syndrome typed SI as 1356

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chris42  
#14 Posted : 14 July 2017 10:56:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Thanks yes one sign required any size provided it is legible and can be put anywhere even where it can’t be seen. 

You never know we may still get foreign visitors after Brexit. Where I worked previously we had a visitor from Columbia, who could not get his head around not being allowed to smoke inside. 

I love the H&S swingometer, too far one way, then too far the other.

Sorry OP didn’t mean to hijack your post.

I feel most H&S and other signs just blend into the background after a while and are a meaningless waste of time. We have been pulled up on some of our Fire action notices by our assessor as they don’t all say dial 999 (really), or the location of the assembly point (we only have one at each place and everyone knows where it is, visitors are escorted out.). But mandatory sign.

Love motorway service stations, pick out the exit sign etc from the coffee, burger signs.

It is one of those dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t. Best we can do is ensure any that are up are correct and there is not too many of them / unnecessary one up.

Chris

grim72  
#15 Posted : 17 July 2017 15:41:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
grim72

My personal view is that safety signs are more useful for visitors etc than for employees that see them every day - after all you'd like to think that once you've been informed something is dangerous or that you have to do something to improve your safety, then you don't need to read the same reminder every day of the year to act upon it. I guess the introduction of harmonised symbols across the EU with ISO 7010 signage should also help remove some of the barriers/uncertainties rasied by language restraints?

Fire exit signs etc are surely the exception to the rule - I'd like to think they have more positive impact than the quoted 1% in terms of saving peoples lives during an emergency evacuation?

jwk  
#16 Posted : 18 July 2017 13:53:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

I regularly get the Hull Trains train to London (you'll never guess where it goes from). One of the carriages has two wheelchair spaces at either side of the aisle near the door to the seating area. There are big signs telling people not to put luggage there, as the space is for wheelchairs. Recently staff on some of the trains have supplemented the printed signs with additional laminated notices on the adjacent tables, reinforcing the message. These spaces always have luggage in them. OK, they're not safety notices as such but....

John

Edited by user 18 July 2017 13:54:52(UTC)  | Reason: Added in some grammar

LeanneD  
#17 Posted : 18 July 2017 14:34:12(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
LeanneD

Originally Posted by: jwk Go to Quoted Post

I regularly get the Hull Trains train to London (you'll never guess where it goes from). One of the carriages has two wheelchair spaces at either side of the aisle near the door to the seating area. There are big signs telling people not to put luggage there, as the space is for wheelchairs. Recently staff on some of the trains have supplemented the printed signs with additional laminated notices on the adjacent tables, reinforcing the message. These spaces always have luggage in them. OK, they're not safety notices as such but....

John

Surely that just pig ignorance from those putting their luggage there rather than ignoring or not seeing the signs.  As long as they move their luggage should a wheelchair user gets on the train then that's ok.

There was something on the One Show (very scientific viewing i know!) about a road in Swindon i think that had an absolute dirth of signs on it, safety sigs, speed signs...allsorts, yet there were still a lot of accidents along it.  The council experimented and took some of them down and hey presto! less accidents as drivers were concentrating on driving and not reading road signs!

A Kurdziel  
#18 Posted : 18 July 2017 15:38:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

The problem I think (my favourite phrase) is that you cannot simply say safety signs are or are not effective. It all depends on the context. So a visitor to an unfamiliar place will first be prompted by safety signs saying things like danger watch out to look for more information, while on the other hand some sad peeling faded sign which has been there for years will probably have zero impact in the people who have working there for years and think they know it all.

There are also various scenarios in between these extremes, depending on who is looking at the sign and how motivated they are to engage with them.

It is also not clear what we mean by effectiveness of a sign:  what is a 100% effective sign-it is quite possible to have a sign which everybody has seen and read but because of the culture of the place is entirely ignored. Is that the signs fault or is it the fault of organisation when people ignore signs.

Again a topic for research.

Roundtuit  
#19 Posted : 18 July 2017 18:09:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Like one site I visited in France - at the entrance to the machine hall No Smoking, Wear Safety Foot Wear, Wear Hearing Protection

So coming from this well signed workplace an employee in sandals with a cigarette hanging from their lip and a Walkman on their ears - my contact for the day the site safety supervisor!

Roundtuit  
#20 Posted : 18 July 2017 18:09:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Like one site I visited in France - at the entrance to the machine hall No Smoking, Wear Safety Foot Wear, Wear Hearing Protection

So coming from this well signed workplace an employee in sandals with a cigarette hanging from their lip and a Walkman on their ears - my contact for the day the site safety supervisor!

MikeKelly  
#21 Posted : 18 July 2017 18:28:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MikeKelly

Hi Andrew

There is a lot of research contained in Glendon and McKenna's book on Human Safety and Risk Management, this deals with signs and posters etc and a general conclusion is that to be really effective they must be 

Specific to the task/situation

Back up previous training [ie not a one off]

Give a positive instruction. [aalthough sometimes considered to be a challenge ie do not dive here in the shallow end]

Be located close to where the desired action is to take place.

Build on existing knowledge/attitudes.

Be on topics over which the audience has a degree of control

They should not:

Involve horror -this brings defence mechanisms into play

Be negative-this does not indicte the correct response

Be general exhortations as people will think it applies to others

Have a different impact on different groups ie safety conscious people v risk taking idiots-cyclists maybe [mind you, being a motorcyclist, hmmm]

Research after Sell 1977-other research by Goldhaber and De Turck 1988

I still prefer the old hard copy stuff

Regards

Mike

PS This book is brilliant-  not sure which edition is current

 

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A Kurdziel on 19/07/2017(UTC)
jwk  
#22 Posted : 19 July 2017 08:46:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Hi Leanne,

I'm not sure if it is pig ignorance, I'm reasonably convinced that people just don't see the signs. They're too busy looking for empty seats and too busy trying to rid themselves of a burden,

John

A Kurdziel  
#23 Posted : 19 July 2017 09:00:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Furthermore- having attended a talk on generational issues-could it be said that for the younger generation relying of old fashioned signs just does not work but if it comes from an iPhone or similar device they swallow it hook line and sinker. So why not someone design an app that issues you with warnings as go about your work place?  Go into a noisy area and message appears on your phone (along with vibration) saying “put on your ear protection” or “here you should be wearing a hard hat” or “shut the fire door you have just opened”.  Or does it already exist?

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jwk on 19/07/2017(UTC)
kmason83  
#24 Posted : 19 July 2017 09:25:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
kmason83

How well people follow safety signage I guess is a question of culture, you can place sign well and be clear and as carefull as you like with signage but if no one is insterested because of culture/climete issues then thats what you need to work on. 

I also read that someone goes in on day one and pulls all the signs down, little bit bullish in my opinion as you are basically saying that person you have all trusted in the past well they are an idiot and I know best. Not a great way to get a workforce on your side I wouldn't have thought. 

Roundtuit  
#25 Posted : 19 July 2017 10:14:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: kmason83 Go to Quoted Post

I also read that someone goes in on day one and pulls all the signs down, little bit bullish in my opinion as you are basically saying that person you have all trusted in the past well they are an idiot and I know best. Not a great way to get a workforce on your side I wouldn't have thought. 

No - I said all the old signs, not all the signs.

Is it bullish to remove signs in a poor state of repair (faded, cracked, hidden behind new racking etc.), no longer relevant (no smoking within premises) or subject to regulatory change e.g. old COSHH posters with orange pictograms when the matertials at site all carry red diamonds?

Roundtuit  
#26 Posted : 19 July 2017 10:14:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: kmason83 Go to Quoted Post

I also read that someone goes in on day one and pulls all the signs down, little bit bullish in my opinion as you are basically saying that person you have all trusted in the past well they are an idiot and I know best. Not a great way to get a workforce on your side I wouldn't have thought. 

No - I said all the old signs, not all the signs.

Is it bullish to remove signs in a poor state of repair (faded, cracked, hidden behind new racking etc.), no longer relevant (no smoking within premises) or subject to regulatory change e.g. old COSHH posters with orange pictograms when the matertials at site all carry red diamonds?

kmason83  
#27 Posted : 19 July 2017 10:50:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
kmason83

Ahh yeah ok miss read my bad. 

RayRapp  
#28 Posted : 19 July 2017 10:54:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

I bet in the seminar they did not tell you the most effective place to put signs - in the toilet above the urinals!

A Kurdziel  
#29 Posted : 19 July 2017 14:47:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Originally Posted by: RayRapp Go to Quoted Post

I bet in the seminar they did not tell you the most effective place to put signs - in the toilet above the urinals!

So where do the women get the H&S information from?

LeanneD  
#30 Posted : 19 July 2017 15:46:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
LeanneD

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayRapp Go to Quoted Post

I bet in the seminar they did not tell you the most effective place to put signs - in the toilet above the urinals!

So where do the women get the H&S information from?

Provide us with She-Wee's and we can use urinals as well....gender equality and all that haha (incidentally i ran the London Marathon this year and they had female urinals at the start line...i steered well clear!!!)

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