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desertwellie  
#1 Posted : 21 July 2017 09:50:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
desertwellie

Hi all.

I have recently started work at a Housing Association, and would like some advice on whether the following are RIDDOR reportable.

1.  A resident trips on uneven paving in their garden (an area which is managed by the Housing Association), and is taken directly to hospital for treatment to their injury.

2.  A resident trips on uneven paving in their garden (an area which is managed by the Housing Association), and waits until the next day to go to hospital for treatment to their injury.

Any help is gratefully received.

Thanks.

Hsquared14  
#2 Posted : 21 July 2017 10:03:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hsquared14

I don't think either scenario is RIDDOR reportable because they are not "work related".  I've just looked the definitions on the HSE website.

desertwellie  
#3 Posted : 21 July 2017 10:09:36(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
desertwellie

For clarity, the Housing Association fully manage the properties, including repairs and maintenance, but obviously the area is not a workplace.

Roundtuit  
#4 Posted : 21 July 2017 10:20:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

So landlord duties regarding maintenance of the property but for incidents involving members of the general public (resident or otherwise) even if they attend hospital NOT RIDDOR

If it were then anyone tripping over on the public highway would similarly expect the Highways Agency / Local Authority to be submitting a RIDDOR report which does not happen

Roundtuit  
#5 Posted : 21 July 2017 10:20:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

So landlord duties regarding maintenance of the property but for incidents involving members of the general public (resident or otherwise) even if they attend hospital NOT RIDDOR

If it were then anyone tripping over on the public highway would similarly expect the Highways Agency / Local Authority to be submitting a RIDDOR report which does not happen

Elfin Davy 09  
#6 Posted : 21 July 2017 10:29:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Elfin Davy 09

As others have said, definitely not RIDDOR - not work related.

However, if it can be proven that the maintenance of the area leaves something to be desired - ie if known raised / uneven paving was responsible for the accident(s) - then the Housing Association is likely to be sued nevertheless !

desertwellie  
#7 Posted : 21 July 2017 10:30:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
desertwellie

Thank you Roundtuit...I had sort of come to the same conclusion, but, being new to Housing, needed that little sense check.

desertwellie  
#8 Posted : 21 July 2017 10:38:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
desertwellie

Thanks Elfin.  Obviously we would investigate and record details from an insurance perspective, and carry out remedial action, and implement additional controls as necessary, but I wasn't sure on the RIDDOR bit!

desertwellie  
#9 Posted : 21 July 2017 10:45:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
desertwellie

So, leading on from this, and just to be clear, if a resident fell over an operative's drill and was taken to hospital for treatment, that does make it RIDDOR reportable as it is in connection with our work activities.

Hsquared14  
#10 Posted : 21 July 2017 14:23:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hsquared14

Yes, in that scenario your worker and his work activities directly affected the tenant and caused the accident so it would be RIDDOR reportable and you could still get sued because don't forget that RIDDOR is criminal law but people have the right to sue under civil law.

desertwellie  
#11 Posted : 21 July 2017 14:27:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
desertwellie

Thanks Hsquared.  I now need to let the business know that they have historically been over reporting...

pip306  
#12 Posted : 21 July 2017 14:38:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
pip306

Hi 

As it's Friday and I am fed up of listening to the workman outside of the office run their generator non-stop for no reason we can tell can i be controversial (and probably shot down in flames) the definition of work related relates to premises also not just actvitiy. 

Could you argue that the Housing association failed to maintain their premises and caused an accident resulting in injury - as a housing associations work is property standards and maintenance could this actually be a RIDDOR? does the definition of work related depend on the type of work the company do? Just because there was no physical job being carried out does not mean it is not work related. 

RIDDOR only requires you to report accidents if they happen ‘out of or in connection with work’. The fact that there is an accident at work premises does not, in itself, mean that the accident is work-related – the work activity itself must contribute to the accident. An accident is ‘work-related’ if any of the following played a significant role:

  • the way the work was carried out
  • any machinery, plant, substances or equipment used for the work or
  • the condition of the site or premises where the accident happened

Edited by user 21 July 2017 14:39:50(UTC)  | Reason: spelling

Elfin Davy 09  
#13 Posted : 21 July 2017 15:25:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Elfin Davy 09

pip306 - as it's Friday, you can be as controversial as you like, but it's still not a RIDDOR accident in my 'umble opinion  :-)

The premises described by the OP are "properties managed and maintained by a Housing Association" so it is not a workplace to the residents (although it will be to the staff who are employed by the Housing Association).  Therefore, any accidents which occur to residents (such as tripping on uneven kerbstones OR tripping over a discarded drill) would not be "work related", and therefore wouldn't be RIDDOR reportable. 

Just to make the distinction, either of the aforementioned incidents may well have been RIDDOR reportable (depending upon circumstances) if they had happened to employed Housing Association staff rather than to non-employed residents. 

Any personal injuries to residents which are deemed to have been caused by the negligence of said property management company would be a Civil matter, and dealt with via the Housing Associations' insurers.

And it's almost beer o'clock !

Have a good weekend everyone.

ke5283  
#14 Posted : 02 August 2017 09:00:26(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ke5283

Just to throw in my two pence worth. I have the same issues as the OP, we wern't reporting such incidents, however I found the below on the HSE website. Could this definition also be relevant to the roles and responsibilities of a housing assoc?

Q. A visitor to a formal garden of a stately home trips and falls on gardening debris left on a path, spraining her ankle. Is this reportable?

A. Yes, The garden is a managed attraction, and the accident is attributable to a failure to maintain the paths in good order and clear of obstructions.

Elfin Davy 09  
#15 Posted : 02 August 2017 10:36:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Elfin Davy 09

ke5283

No, not in my opinion.

The inference of a "managed attraction" is that an entrance fee will have been paid, so there is then a clear responsibility towards visitors.

The case in point of the OP was that the injured party was a resident of properties managed by a housing association (ie a tenant), so no such responsibility exists (although as previously alluded to, the civil duties/responsibilities DO still exist, so PI claims can be made, it's just not RIDDOR reportable)... 

thanks 1 user thanked Elfin Davy 09 for this useful post.
ke5283 on 06/08/2017(UTC)
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