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Paul911  
#1 Posted : 26 July 2017 09:12:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Paul911

Hi All,

As a wholesaler we often have customers buy pallets of stock from our warehouses and collect them using various types of vans. The pallets are heavy and not posted with an actual total weight i.e cans of drink and pet food, but my question is as Follows: If said van was subsequnelty involved in a RTA and found to be overweight, would we, as the body who loaded the van with an FLT at the request of the customer be held liable in any way?

The pallets we receiced come from all over the world and so getting each supplier to post a weight would be impossible, but as the vehicle is loaded in front of the customer and only at their request because they obviouly do not want to transfer it all by hand, could we get around it by getting them to sign a liability waiver or do they bear all the responsibility at the end of the day? I think I know the answer but as I struggle to introduce yet more paperwork, I really need a definitive answer and so if anyone knows for sure, i would really like to hear from you.

Thanks

Paul911  
#2 Posted : 26 July 2017 09:18:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Paul911

P.S We are talking 1 to 3 pallets here to independant shop owners and not HGV haulage.

Hsquared14  
#3 Posted : 26 July 2017 09:42:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hsquared14

My understanding is that it is the driver that bears responsibility for the load and the vehicle.  That is why in our warehouse we have to give driver's the right to view and check the load before they leave our loading dock.

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Paul911 on 27/07/2017(UTC)
Stuart Smiles  
#4 Posted : 26 July 2017 22:08:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Stuart Smiles

forklifts can have an attachement with weighers on them so that you can accurately know the weight, or you could have a weighbridge/axle weigher to check weights, for not much money. 

personally, the issue comes when you then know the vehicle is overweight and causing/permitting an overloaded vehicle to leave site, knowing it's over the limit. 

the best rule of thumb for vans would be an absolute maximum of 1 tonne. given the 750 kgs limit currently being looked at by hse, that'd be a pallet and a few bags, plus driver (80kgs) and other stuff already in the van as a maximum. 

liklihood is that they wouldn't get stopped, and unless there was an accident it wouldn't get looked at, but hse may get interested in the loading and control of loading, especially as you will probably have your own operators licence and committments to overloading within that, realistically you know there is a problem, because otherwise you wouldn't ask. 

a disclaimer of weigh of pallet and no resposibility, with their signature in a book and sheet to them if they go over a pallet may be a good start, with some lawyer wording on their responsibilities, diligence, and instructions and/or offer of delivery to site refused as an option. with sign/print, date. time, reg & vehicle type/payload available estimate (filled in by them). 

you could have a weighbridge facility at the gate for entry/exit and use for your own use to know you are ok, however the liklihood is traders have no interest unless previously they have had discussions with DVSA or hold an o-licence of their own. 

DVSA and Traffic Commissioners are aware vans are where overloading takes place, but there's no appetite to reduce past above 3.5 tonnes for o-licences from the government, but dvsa will notice and pull a van "sitting on it's arse" and are getting fixed penalties on vans and associated costs against drivers. 

The other issue is load security, and that will be something to address as part of the process too at the same time, other posts on the board discuss the issues, but load security is up the scale in terms of interest for DVSA. 

once it's on the highway the driver is responsible, however the only real place where i have seen specifications of roles and responsibilities is within ADR, so if you want to look at that it'll give you the roles of loader, packer, driver, operator and receiver. 

the senior traffic commissioner guidance on drivers, operators, and transport managers explains with some examples what is expected of a transport operator, and as such perhaps you want to consider how you would explain looking one way for collects, compared to own account operations, and how one would answer such questions, knowing the rules. 

good luck 

thanks 

  

thanks 1 user thanked Stuart Smiles for this useful post.
Paul911 on 27/07/2017(UTC)
watcher  
#5 Posted : 27 July 2017 10:09:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
watcher

My understanding, too, is that it is the driver's responsibility to make sure that he/she is happy that the load is secure and secured.

watcher  
#6 Posted : 27 July 2017 10:12:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
watcher

Sorry, I should have added to my previous post - should be responsible for the limits too

thanks 1 user thanked watcher for this useful post.
Paul911 on 27/07/2017(UTC)
Stuart Smiles  
#7 Posted : 29 July 2017 10:39:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Stuart Smiles

http://www.sunderlandecho.com/our-region/sunderland/law-breaking-driver-s-sunderland-bound-van-was-so-overloaded-it-carried-the-cargo-of-three-vehicles-1-8675006 

saw this and thought of this post, vans, food, overloading... 

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