A question on the F10 form, we have several notifiable jobs on the go at the moment and each one has the F10 on the wall of the site office, on some sites it’s signed by our CDMA and others it’s not, my question is does the F10 in the site office need to be signed or is it expectable that it’s there? I know the HSE don’t require a signed copy for their records but do we.

If it is a requirement please tell me where to look so I can inform the grown ups

P.S. I have already looked but can't find anything and I have sent an email to the HSE asking the question but they have informed me i'll have to wait up to 30 days for an answer.

Thanks, 

Murray

As Ron has rightly pointed out, there is no need for an F10 to be signed, although this didn't used to be the case. 

Regarding CDMA, is that a CDM Advisor...?

Originally Posted by: Ron Hunter

CDM Adviser: No business signing or otherwise putting his name to an F10 unless he's a legal and authorised representative of the CDM Client.

Ron,

Since the regs changed a lot of the old CDMC's seem to have become CDM Advisors (or another similar position). My understanding is that they act as the client's representative/advisor to ensure that the client stays on the right side of CDM.

Originally Posted by: murray-t

Thanks Ron, yes our CDM Advisor is registered as our Clients Rep and submits our F10 information to the HSE, he also checks the pre construction information and documentation 

That arrangement may give cause for concern. Most of that should be done by the Principal Designer (Regulation 11). The continuation of this additional specialist CDMA (previously CDM-C) role can muddy the waters more than a little.

In general respect, and to quote CDM Guidance (L153 (para 34)):

If a client needs help in making these arrangements, the principal designer should be in a position to help with this.

Stern, there are those with vested interest (in maintaing the previous (failed) iteration of CDM) who would have had us believe the 2015 Regulations had "failed" before they were on the Statute Book.

Life must be interesting for a CDMA, particularly when it comes to advise the Client of his duties?

CDMA to Client: You have a statutory duty to appoint a Principal Designer

Client to CDMA: And what role does he carry out?

CDMA to Client: Err, the one your paying me for

Client to CDMA: And do I have any statutory obligation to appoint you?

CDMA to Client: Err, no.

Client to CDMA: Your appointment is terminated.

Originally Posted by: Ron Hunter

Stern, there are those with vested interest (in maintaing the previous (failed) iteration of CDM) who would have had us believe the 2015 Regulations had "failed" before they were on the Statute Book.

Life must be interesting for a CDMA, particularly when it comes to advise the Client of his duties?

CDMA to Client: You have a statutory duty to appoint a Principal Designer

Client to CDMA: And what role does he carry out?

CDMA to Client: Err, the one your paying me for

Client to CDMA: And do I have any statutory obligation to appoint you?

CDMA to Client: Err, no.

Client to CDMA: Your appointment is terminated.

Ron,

I'm not saying it's right. What i'm saying is that the role of CDMA (or whatever else they choose to call themselves) is extremely common in the construction industry, almost standard. And these aren't just clueless clients appointing them. Many are huge national/multinational companies with their own dedicated H&S departments.

Again, not defending the setup, but surely the fact that it is so widespread would point to some fundamental errors or weaknesses with the current CDM regs?

Originally Posted by: Ron Hunter

I cant' agree that the weakness lies with CDM2015 (which is itself a much closer match to the EU parent TMCS Directive). The weakness surely rests with an industry which chooses to add costs to a project for the false comfort of engaging a middle man with no accountabilities under CDM.

Such ill-defined roles merely add confusion and can hamper the effective consideration and communication of risk to and from Designers and Principal Designers.

HSE identified this as one of the key implementation weaknesses (i.e. externally appointed CDM-Cs) of CDM2007 and were at great pains to express that view during their CDM2015 roadshows.

Blaming Regulations for poor practice tends (IMHO) to fall into the red-tape challenge nonsense perpetuated by the current colour of National Government.

Perhaps you're right. Who know. However with it being such a widespread practice there must be an underlying issue somewhere...

I would say that as an industry construction tends to do everything it can to save money so i wouldn't have thought they were simply choosing to add costs simply for the sake of it. I would also be amazed if it had anything to do with the current government. Had Corbyn won the election a few months back i don't think we'd have suddenly seen a mass of unemployed CDMAs. Again though, who knows!