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creative2  
#1 Posted : 21 September 2015 16:50:37(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
creative2

Has anyone had any dealings with water jetting as covered by CDM 2015, in particular does it only come under the regulations when it is being carried out directly related to construction as opposed to in a workplace which is just a factory or production area?

with thanks
Andy
RayRapp  
#2 Posted : 22 September 2015 09:30:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

I have not had any direct dealing with this aspect of work, however upon refreshing myself with regulation 2. (a) Interpretation - CDM 2015, I would say that the reference to high pressure water is for maintenance/cleaning within a construction related activity; as opposed to a production type process. Just my opinion others may disagree.

(a) the construction, alteration, conversion, fitting out, commissioning, renovation, repair, upkeep, redecoration or other maintenance (including cleaning which involves the use of water or an abrasive at high pressure, or the use of corrosive or toxic substances), de-commissioning, demolition or dismantling of a structure;
Fullarton39060  
#3 Posted : 23 September 2015 10:05:03(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Fullarton39060

We had a process of water jetting used in a factory environment, yes its covered b y CDM but in essence its just a case of applying the other H&S stuff to ensure that it is carried out safe and those involved are trained and competent.

If its all RA and a method statement or procedure and all are trained then you have satisfied CDM and the other bits of legislation

Stew
SallyOD  
#4 Posted : 06 September 2017 11:17:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SallyOD

So in this context, taking (including cleaning which involves the use of water or an abrasive at high pressure, or the use of corrosive or toxic substances) using water jetting to remove graffitti for example, would this activity now require its own Construction Phase Plan?  What are your thoughts?

O'Donnell54548  
#5 Posted : 06 September 2017 13:42:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
O'Donnell54548

Sally, a Construction Phase Plan is only required for notifiable projects.

O'Donnell54548  
#6 Posted : 06 September 2017 13:48:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
O'Donnell54548

Sorry Sally, pressed the post button too quick. What I meant to say was that your plan for graffiti removal would probably look more like a RAMS or a SOP than a Construction Phase Plan.

SNS  
#7 Posted : 06 September 2017 20:57:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SNS

Originally Posted by: O'Donnell54548 Go to Quoted Post

Sally, a Construction Phase Plan is only required for notifiable projects.

A point for discussion, this http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/cis80.pdf says that a CPP is needed for all construction?

O'Donnell54548  
#8 Posted : 07 September 2017 06:23:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
O'Donnell54548

SNS, please see my follow up post. Also the HSE guidance PDF you refer to in your post states that it would not be sufficient for a notifiable project, if you look at the template they have provided it would be covered by a RAMS or SOP as I suggested.

Alfasev  
#9 Posted : 07 September 2017 07:45:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Alfasev

Using water jetting to remove graffiti in itself is not construction work and therefore CDM does not apply. Work must first be considered construction work before you consider regulation 2-(1) (a)-(e).

O'Donnell54548  
#10 Posted : 07 September 2017 08:29:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
O'Donnell54548

HSE definition of construction work includes;

•the construction, alteration, conversion, fitting out, commissioning, renovation, repair, upkeep, redecoration or other maintenance (including cleaning which involves the use of water or an abrasive at high pressure, or the use of corrosive or toxic substances), de-commissioning, demolition or dismantling of a structure;
hilary  
#11 Posted : 07 September 2017 09:32:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

If you had more than one Contractor working on this project then it would automatically fall under CDM and a Pre-Construction Phase Plan and Construction Phase Plan would be required regardless of notifiability.  They do not need to be complex but they do need to look at all the risks. 

However, if you just employ one person/organisation to do this task and it doesn't meet the notifiability criteria then it would not be CDM and you could get by with RAMS. 

Stick to one person would be my advice.

Woolf13  
#12 Posted : 07 September 2017 11:41:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Woolf13

Hi,

In answer to your question on what constitutes CDM and in particular water jetting it is classed as CDM and will require a Construction Phase Plan (CPP), please see below the reasons why. Risk Assessments and Method Statements (RAMS) are not a CPP. The CPP is the management of the job the RAMS are the carrying out of the task. This is explained in L153.

A CPP is required whether the project is notifiable or not. The CPP should be proportionate to the project and for the water jetting task you describe this will mean it is not too onerous or detailed.

Good advice can be obtained from the Water Jetting Association (WJA) who have written a Code of Practice for water jetting in conjunction with the HSE. 

Please see below the rationale of why water jetting is CDM:

  • “construction work” means the carrying out of any engineering construction work and includes—other maintenance (including cleaning which involves the use of water or an abrasive at high pressure)

  • “structure” means— any building, timber, masonry, metal or reinforced concrete structure, waterworks, reservoir, pipe or pipeline, road, lagoon, or structure designed to preserve or alter any natural feature, and fixed plant

  • WJA Code of Practice the term "Water Jetting" will be taken to include all pressures up to 1700bar (25000psi)

  • Construction good practice classes “high pressure water jetting” including the use of additives and abrasives, at
    pressures above 140bar (2030psi) and up to 1700bar (25000psi)

  • The most serious potential accidents relate to the direct impact of a water jet on the body. The pressure required to penetrate the skin is in the order of 7bar (1OOpsi)

I would advise, if still unsure, you seek assistance from a construction qualified health and safety professional who is APS accredited to give you proportionate guidance on what should be in place.

I hope that this helps?


Alfasev  
#13 Posted : 07 September 2017 12:21:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Alfasev

This is a common misinterpretation of the regulations not helped by there being no ACOP and poor wording. I would refer you to: -

file:///C:/Users/user11/Downloads/CDM%202015%20%20QA%20Briefing%208%20pdf%20%20An%20approach%20to%20interpreting%20the%20term%20%20September%202015%20(3).pdf

What is and is not construction work can be a subjective decision at times but it is not the intention of CDM that all the tasks listed in  (a)-(e) are automatically considered construction work. The intention of (a)-(e) is to make it clear that if any of these tasks are carries out during building, civil engineering or engineering construction works they come under CDM. You cannot split them out to avoid CDM.

Ron Hunter  
#14 Posted : 07 September 2017 12:29:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Originally Posted by: hilary Go to Quoted Post

If you had more than one Contractor working on this project then it would automatically fall under CDM and a Pre-Construction Phase Plan and Construction Phase Plan would be required regardless of notifiability.  They do not need to be complex but they do need to look at all the risks. 

However, if you just employ one person/organisation to do this task and it doesn't meet the notifiability criteria then it would not be CDM and you could get by with RAMS. 

Stick to one person would be my advice.


 

Hilary, with respect, you seem to lack a clear understanding of CDM2015. CPP is required regardless. See Regulation 15.

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