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thunderchild  
#1 Posted : 11 October 2017 09:00:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
thunderchild

Can anyone point me in the direction of legal guidance on what you can and cannot install internally? I know there is the SEMA guidence but that is guidence (we all sat here know the big stick this is for the HSE) but as its not legal then I'm struggling. I've also looled at the HSE warehouse guidance and that doesn't shed any more light either.

Woolf13  
#2 Posted : 11 October 2017 13:59:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Woolf13

Hi,

These are the best guidance documents to use for racking. Ultimately supply of racking falls under Section 6 of the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974.

In short, if you can demonstrate following risk assessment and utlising SEMA/HSE guidance and the manufacturer's installation instructions it would be very difficult for anyone to point or use a "big stick".

You would be able to point the big stick back in the direction of the guidance and SEMA/HSE are not going to set themselves up for that.

I hope this helps?

thunderchild  
#3 Posted : 12 October 2017 07:18:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
thunderchild

That's the problem, despite me pointing out the HSE / SEMA giudence its not correctly being followed. Its not legal, just guidance. Its the "we'd like to to do it this way" rather than "you must do it this way" which is what I am struggling with.

georgiaredmayne  
#4 Posted : 12 October 2017 09:17:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
georgiaredmayne

Hi, 

See extract from HSE below:

HSE guidance provides advice to help you understand how to comply with the law; explanations of specific requirements in law; specific technical information or references to further sources of information to help you comply with your legal duties.

This guidance is issued by the Health and Safety Executive. Following the guidance is not compulsory, unless specifically stated, and you are free to take other action. But if you do follow the guidance you will normally be doing enough to comply with the law. Health and safety inspectors seek to secure compliance with the law and may refer to this guidance.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/legislation/legal-status.htm 

douglas.dick  
#5 Posted : 12 October 2017 09:34:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
douglas.dick

Originally Posted by: thunderchild Go to Quoted Post

That's the problem, despite me pointing out the HSE / SEMA giudence its not correctly being followed. Its not legal, just guidance. Its the "we'd like to to do it this way" rather than "you must do it this way" which is what I am struggling with.

ACOPS & HSE Guidance have a semi-legal status, as they form a basis in law that failure to at least comply, will show that you failed in your legal duty. As usual with H&S, its only when the preverbial dog waste hits the minature wind mill that you are educated in the errors of your ways.
A Kurdziel  
#6 Posted : 12 October 2017 09:42:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

This is where risk assessment comes into it. There should be a risk assessment for the installation and use of this equipment. One of the controls will be installing the racking in accordance with the manufacture's instructions and any relevant guidance. If there is no suitable and sufficient risk assessment you are in breach of Management of Health and Safety at Work regs and possibly PUWER. Your bosses need to get their heads around the concept of goal setting legislation as opposed to prescriptive rules.

 

thunderchild  
#7 Posted : 12 October 2017 10:05:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
thunderchild

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

 Your bosses need to get their heads around the concept of goal setting legislation as opposed to prescriptive rules.

Head + Wall + Bang........repeat

 

A Kurdziel  
#8 Posted : 12 October 2017 12:39:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Originally Posted by: thunderchild Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

 Your bosses need to get their heads around the concept of goal setting legislation as opposed to prescriptive rules.

Head + Wall + Bang........repeat]

Are they really stupid or just cowboys looking to short cut everything? Did someone tell them it was ok in the past and they believed them but not you?

 

thunderchild  
#9 Posted : 12 October 2017 14:26:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
thunderchild

This is my issue, because its not been stoppped before in this business or in previous ones they now cannot understand why I am being a stick in the mud with it.

I get a lot of "but its been this way for years" or "but everyone does it"

I also have the disadvantage of not being around racking before so everyone knows more than I do! I'm the only one reading the giudance though.

Really frustrating.

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