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thunderchild  
#1 Posted : 23 October 2017 08:34:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
thunderchild

Right the senario is this, we had an NICEIC contractor all lined up but the plug got pulled 3 days before. Another company was put in the frame. I initially said no as they were STROMA and not NICEIC. ECA or NAPIT. Unfortuatly for me after a lot of back and forth the insurers aproved him. Dang!!!

They've been and quoted and is a third the price of the previous comany which sets alarm bells of for me (this ain't gonna be a picnic!). Now provided his RAMS are up to snuff and I approve them what do I need to see him do? I have never seen anyone do a fixed wire test and I have major doubts over this company.

What would you suggest he should and should not be doing????

Just to give you an idea we have 16 distribution boards and shocking (no pun intended) wiring. For the price he has quoted for 2 people for 2 weeks I can't believe he will do a proper job. Oh and we have no circut diagrams! He just came in and looked at the distribution boards and nothing more.....not sure if he should have looked at anything else??? 

Any advice / guidance is much appreciated. And yes, once again I have voiced my opinion that we should not be using this company.

paul.skyrme  
#2 Posted : 24 October 2017 22:02:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

Hello thunderchild.

OK, where to start...

Firstly in the eyes of the "establishment" all of those named schemes are equal.

Yes the NICEIC are the most well known, but all have their strengths and weaknesses.

I know quite a bit about them all, good and bad, and the way that they operate and assess.

Next, if it is too cheap to be true, then it probably isn't.  However, smaller companies do tend to have in general lower overheads.

You do need to ensure that their RAMS are correct.

Next, all instruments used must be calibrated & routinely checked to prove that they are still in calibration, this would be a monthly check against a know constant source.

This would be checked as part of their scheme assessment.

Next, you need to be sure of their insurances etc. and that they meet your requirements.

I would be expecting that the individuals undertaking the I&T are competent and qualified to do so, so typically apprenticeship served, JIB Gold Card, C&G 2391 or equivalent, and 17th edition qualifications or the like, it depends on their age and background the exact mix of what I would consider is required.

Then, what was your specification for the work?  If you didn’t have a specification, then you are not comparing like for like quotations.

I could quote you 1/3rd of the price of another contractor, if the first had quoted 100% invasive I&T and I quoted 50% inspection & 10% testing, which is in fact worthless, but compliant with BS7671, as long as it is agreed in advance.

How many ways in each board, look at 1hr per cct, plus 1hr per board plus office time to complete the report.

I would only have looked at the DB’s as far as you could tell, but, I would also have clocked the rest of the installation whilst walking around, I would have walked through every accessible area of the premises.

If you have no previous records, then there may be additional works required to be compliant and safe.

The IET Guidance Note 3, Inspection & Testing says the following with reference to BS7671 regulation 621.1:

“Where diagrams, charts or tables are not available, a degree of exploratory work may be necessary so that inspection and testing can be carried out safely and effectively; this may include a survey to identify switchgear, controlgear and the circuits they control.

Indeed, for more involved installations without diagrams or charts the client should be advised that such diagrams require producing prior to the inspection and testing commencing. Alternatively, the inspection can commence in cases where the inspector considers that it is safe to proceed (this may be limited to visual inspection); the production of diagrams and charts can be called for on the Electrical Installation Condition Report.

Note should be made of any known changes in environmental conditions, building structure, and additions or alterations which have affected the suitability of the wiring for its present load and method of installation.”

Where are you, probably for a cost which would raise the STROMA registered company toward what the NICEIC contractor quoted, but, hopefully still cheaper, I could offer an independent audit, if you are worried.

However this must be discussed off the forum via PM or email.

paul.skyrme  
#3 Posted : 24 October 2017 22:07:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

One last comment, TBH,  I don't think that you wold be competent to comment on their working practices and methods unles you are competent to do the work in the first place, because it is a bit different!

IET GN3 also says:

1.2 Required competence

610.5 (BS7671 regulation number)

The inspector carrying out the inspection and testing of any electrical installation must, as appropriate to his or her function, have a sound knowledge and experience relevant to the nature of the installation being inspected and tested, and of BS 7671 and other relevant technical standards. The inspector must also have relevant education and experience to enable him or her to perceive risks and avoid dangers that electricity can create, and be fully versed in the inspection and testing procedures and employ suitable test equipment during the inspection and testing process.

Furthermore, the inspector must employ suitable test equipment during the inspection and testing process and have sufficient inspection experience in interpreting the results with respect to the requirements of BS 7671.

It is worth noting that the person responsible for inspection and testing may be required to formally demonstrate competence by means of registration/certification under a recognised scheme, for example as a condition of contract and/or as a requirement of Area Building Control Bodies.

thunderchild  
#4 Posted : 25 October 2017 14:36:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
thunderchild

Thanks for the response. One of them does have BS7671, not sure anout the other one coming along.

I gave him a copy of the last report so he does have that.

Lots of great tips in there and questions raised. Still no RAMS!

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