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boblewis  
#1 Posted : 07 February 2018 09:53:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

The front cover of the current IOSh Magazine poses this question and it immediately raises thoughts in my mind and some questions.

As a professional institution we are primarily concerned with the at work scenario and is this a little off field for us?  More importantly are we treading onto the toes of other bodies particularly RoSPA?  Given however that RoSPA do cross into our area perhaps the answer is why not.  Ater all many in the profession make similar assessments in what is essentially a work situation.  I think here of social workers assessing home environments for child safety, pre school teachers, care homes and a multitude of similar situations and places.  But the question is then whether we are in fact stepping outside of our Charter.

If we do this however perhaps we can help in other areas that are even more off the wall.  Some years ago I went along a local high street at 2300hrs and I looked around and realised that all the youths seemed unable to revel anymore except via the odd fight or two.  When I was at unversity we would revel until 2 or 3 in the morning with gusto and in safety.  So my cogs whirred and clanged until I  developed the outline of 2 courses; Reveling Safely and Advanced Reveling.  These would be offered to all 17 and 18 year olds so that they learn how to negotiate all the pitfalls of a night on the town.  The benefit would be a credit card certificate that served as an ID for entry to pubs and clubs and discounts on food and water while out and about at any time of the day.

Comments :-)

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A Kurdziel on 07/02/2018(UTC), PH2 on 09/02/2018(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#2 Posted : 07 February 2018 10:45:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Revelling is not something that RoSPA have done much on but I can imagine it would breathe new life into Tufty the Squirrel 

RayRapp  
#3 Posted : 07 February 2018 11:11:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Noooooo!!

I am a occupational h&s practitioner...most people at work think we are a pain in the rectum as it is. God knows what they would think if we started meddling in domestic matters.

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lorna on 07/02/2018(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#4 Posted : 07 February 2018 11:59:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Thought the clue was in the name myself  "Institution of Occupational Safety & Health"

I don't perceive we should head towards the domestic other than developing/educating our own

chris.packham  
#5 Posted : 07 February 2018 12:04:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

I am less concerned with physical safety, but with chemical safety it is difficult to separate domestic and occupational exposures to hazardous chemicals. We have our skin 24 hours each day of which, for most of us, about 8 hours on balance will be spent 5 days each week at work. That leaves 16 hours away from the workplace. In my field of occupational dermatology there are many chemicals that we will find away from work as well as at work that are skin hazards. As any dermatologist specialising in contact dermatitis will tell you, water is an irritant to the skin, even though it is not officially classified under CLP as such. Wet work (including wearing chemical protective gloves) is the most common cause of irritant contact dermatitis. Show me a home in the UK without water! It is often the cumulative effect of exposures, both occupational and non-occupational, that is the cause of a problem. So when investigating a suspected occupational skin problem the role/contribution of non-occupational exposures has to be considered, otherwise we can end up with an incorrect diagnosis. So getting the message to the workforce about non-occupational chemical exposure managment is not something that we perhaps should not give thought to.

Chris

Andrew W Walker  
#6 Posted : 07 February 2018 12:36:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Andrew W Walker

Originally Posted by: boblewis Go to Quoted Post

So my cogs whirred and clanged until I  developed the outline of 2 courses; Reveling Safely and Advanced Reveling. 

I think this is a great idea- Leading to a diploma in 'merry making' perhaps?

Jane Blunt  
#7 Posted : 07 February 2018 13:12:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

I have avoided straying into domestic safety for many of the reasons already stated. There is also a real danger of being perceived as patronising.

I have been known to make two exceptions - to stress that electrical fuses blow at large currents, can therefore sometimes allow serious overheating and fire, and you get killed by quite small currents (and that there are other devices that are better for the purpose of saving your life). The second is that I have used the video 'Stand by your pan' as the intro music to my fire safety presentations. It is good, and the audience can relate well to its message. Interestingly it deals well with the fall out from revelling.

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johnc on 07/02/2018(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#8 Posted : 07 February 2018 14:14:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

To be more realistic  I know of reports of one pharmaceutical company that use to investigate any employee who turned up injured for work, even if the injury happened at home doing the old DIY. Their argument was that employees were expected to present themselves ready for work in the morning and if they weren’t, they needed to find out how the employee was injured and if they were really a “safe” person.

Sounds very heavy handed and more than a little authoritarian.

In reality what sort of advice would we be giving?

It might include:

  • Advice on driving- car accidents being one of the leading causes of death and injury
  • Healthy living- stopping smoking, eating healthily, doing exercise etc.
  • Electrical safety at home
  • Dangers posed by ad hoc methods of access (ie why swivel chairs do not a stable work platform make)
  • And the list goes on

 The main problem with all these worthy causes is how we enforce it? We can’t audit people at home. And if we don’t follow up it becomes just a load of worthy hot air, which makes the company look caring but is really just window dressing.

At worst it would come across as us being a bunch of interfering busybodies who don’t have enough to do in the workplace and are looking to expand our empires.

A non-starter really.

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Andrew W Walker on 07/02/2018(UTC)
biker1  
#9 Posted : 07 February 2018 16:02:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Tufty being a well known reveller, of course!

One thing I don't think has been mentioned is the ongoing increase in home workers, which of course could bring domestic safety into the equation.

I can remember seeing RoSPA spot the hazard posters in the local minor injuries unit, which I always thought was shutting the stable door after the horse had bolted.

Edited by user 07 February 2018 16:02:56(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Charlie Brown  
#10 Posted : 07 February 2018 18:00:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Charlie Brown

I personally think it is ok to create awareness and probably most companies who run domestic H&S initiatives for employees really do care but my experience has been that often times employees just don't want to know.

The last company I was at did and still does run an annual "Safety Week" which includes a day dedicated to safety in the home and the feedback I used to get from a lot of employees was along the lines of "what's it got to do with the company what I do at home?"

So, sad to say but why waste your breath?

chris42  
#11 Posted : 07 February 2018 18:29:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Originally Posted by: boblewis Go to Quoted Post

 So my cogs whirred and clanged until I  developed the outline of 2 courses; Reveling Safely and Advanced Reveling. 

If you Revel do you only get one chocolate and Reveling you get the whole packet ? 

The reason could be that people are being encouraged to only eat snacks less than 100 calories in any one go, so reveling is likely out side of that. No more reveling :o(

Merv  
#12 Posted : 08 February 2018 06:41:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Merv

Relevant anecdote ;

I used to work in a foresed area of France, (still live there) Quite a lot of us had log fires for the cenral heating, thus chain saws and working in the woods. (me too)

One monday morning two employees came in with chain saw injuries. One had a slash across the bum, the other on his leg.

The first had been working with his broher, who stumbled and caught him on the bum. The other by himself had tripped and caught his own leg. We put them both on light duties: (one standing, the other sitting down)

An interesting point is that the two involved foremen got together, contacted the local forestry office and, a few days later, two instructors turned up with a load of wood and offered chainsaw lessons in the car park. We told employees that they could go out during their breaks to see the traning the instructors offered. Quite a lot did.

A really ineresting point is that the foremen didn't tell or ask permisson from anyone. (not even me). They just decided it was a good idea.

Final, much less interesting point : I've now installed a heat pump. No more humping a ton or two of logs around. (no exageratio, it gets cold here) (-30C one year. The bushes froze) You might remember that if you'r thinking of installing a log burner

Merv

A Kurdziel  
#13 Posted : 08 February 2018 10:41:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Originally Posted by: chris42 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: boblewis Go to Quoted Post

 So my cogs whirred and clanged until I  developed the outline of 2 courses; Reveling Safely and Advanced Reveling. 

If you Revel do you only get one chocolate and Reveling you get the whole packet ? 

The reason could be that people are being encouraged to only eat snacks less than 100 calories in any one go, so reveling is likely out side of that. No more reveling :o(


Were packets of Revels bigger and better when we were kids?


WatsonD  
#14 Posted : 08 February 2018 11:04:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

Originally Posted by: RayRapp Go to Quoted Post

Noooooo!!

I am a occupational h&s practitioner...most people at work think we are a pain in the rectum as it is. God knows what they would think if we started meddling in domestic matters.

Firstly, I , er second that.

Secondly, I second it again.

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andrewcl on 20/02/2018(UTC)
biker1  
#15 Posted : 08 February 2018 12:40:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Since, statistically, you are more likely to be injured at home than at work, I wouldn't see a major issue in providing some general advice on domestic safety without pointing the finger at anyone, it depends on how you put it across. It is also worth bearing in mind that practices you learn/adopt at work could influence what you do at home, and vice versa. Sickness absence is something caused by personal lives as well as what happens at work, and it would seem odd for an organisation to totally ignore this. Many people indulge in what would widely be considered as risky pursuits, but some general pointers could help them avoid injury, and its effect on workplace activities. It is akin to how you put across risk assessment - the aim is not to get rid of risk altogether, which would be impossible anyway, and I certainly wouldn't want to live in such a world.

Who knows, if you put it across well, it might actually enhance the reputation of the profession and scotch the 'health and safety gone mad' accusations that get incorrectly reported in the press.

Yossarian  
#16 Posted : 08 February 2018 13:49:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Yossarian

Nice one Bob!For myself, I am happy to leave this one tothe Advanced Revelling Safety Experts. I'm pretty sure we all know someone with the requisite post-nominals who is always trying to tell us what to do. Notwithstanding the above, I agree with those who say that if workplace safety is done correctly then the knowledge skills and culture developed are eminently transferrable.

Edited by user 08 February 2018 16:47:50(UTC)  | Reason: Changed ‘enforcers’ to ‘experts’.

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WatsonD on 08/02/2018(UTC)
Invictus  
#17 Posted : 08 February 2018 14:06:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Are there no parents anymore?

Roundtuit  
#18 Posted : 08 February 2018 14:42:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Take it you have never suffered an episode of Jeremy Kyle - the nanny state appears to have knocked any concept of responsibility from the minds of a proportion of those who bring off-spring in to the world.

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Andrew W Walker on 08/02/2018(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#19 Posted : 08 February 2018 15:37:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I don’t think that home safety is per se a bad thing but the question was whether, we as occupational Health and Safety bods, should be getting involved in this. The short answer is, no because:

  • Most of us do not have the time to do it justice
  • We risk alienating our employees by coming across as inferring busybodies
  • We have no way of enforcing/enacting anything we recommend

    I know some people regard home safety as bit of a joke but there have been a series of programmes on BBC 4 describing the dangers which were commonplace in the home only a generation ago.

    They were dealt with by

  • government sponsored programmes of education ( those public information films which kept you awake at night )
  • government legislation
  • initiatives by groups representing the public

I don’t see any role for us (directly) as occupational Health and Safety.

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Yossarian on 08/02/2018(UTC)
Clark34486  
#20 Posted : 08 February 2018 16:01:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Clark34486

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

Take it you have never suffered an episode of Jeremy Kyle - the nanny state appears to have knocked any concept of responsibility from the minds of a proportion of those who bring off-spring in to the world.


Including basic dentistry
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jonc on 12/02/2018(UTC)
Charlie Brown  
#21 Posted : 08 February 2018 17:38:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Charlie Brown

ERRK, now I definitely want fresh safety glasses when I go to the dentist. (See PPE post)

Originally Posted by: Clark34486 Go to Quoted Post

Including basic dentistry

boblewis  
#22 Posted : 08 February 2018 19:32:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

There could be a formal organisation here for reveling.  In the spirit of nearly Friday I am pleased to announce the establishment of the Enthusiatic Youth Organisation for Revelry and Excitment, EYORE for short.  I consulted the great philosopher Pooh Bear in reaching my decision.  

Members are able to greet each other with a cry of Eyore, Eyore.

Apologies for the levity but I concur with many that we have enough issues of our own unless we are going to amend our Royal Charter

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Yossarian on 09/02/2018(UTC)
biker1  
#23 Posted : 09 February 2018 09:44:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Well, I have to say that if Tufty the squirrel has apparently more common sense than humans, you do wonder where we're going. Never mind IOSH or NEBOSH courses, an increasing proportion of the population need to complete a course in basic common sense.

Anyone seen the film 'Idiocracy'?

Yossarian  
#24 Posted : 09 February 2018 11:57:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Yossarian

Originally Posted by: boblewis Go to Quoted Post

 Members are able to greet each other with a cry of Eyore, Eyore.


How very bacchanal.

I now have images of you toga clad, amphorae in hand and garlanded with ivy with your safety acolytes distributing home safety leaflets to the unsuspected from the walls of Chester.

...But that probably tells you more about me...

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andrewcl on 20/02/2018(UTC)
Bigmac1  
#25 Posted : 09 February 2018 17:43:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bigmac1

I think as OSH Professionals its difficult enough to convert workers never mind the public.

However I am an advocate that what we all learn at WORK we should take home with us, thats a starter for 10 I suppose.

And of course you cant be prosecuted at home

Roundtuit  
#26 Posted : 09 February 2018 18:29:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Although HASAW may not apply there are plenty of other Statutory Instruments and a broader spectrum of authorities that can, and occassionally do prosecute

Local radio has been running a "news story" about the high level of prosecutions for failing to comply with the revised child seat laws

Yes I know this is traffic law - the point being it is outside of work in what we all regard as a domestic situation

A Kurdziel  
#27 Posted : 12 February 2018 13:59:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Some years ago an employee (apparently) cut up another employee at a dangerous road junction near to our site. The disgruntled employee called me and asked what I was going to do about it. I said nothing as it was not on company time or company property. I told them to call the police if they really felt hard done by. Later that afternoon I got a call from the upset driver saying that they had called the police and they said that it was too trivial for them to investigate and that the driver should refer it to their company’s H&S manager!  

No I do not want to get sucked into this sort of thing!

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