Rank: Forum user 
|
Hi all, I need some advice on fire speraration requirements between a shop and an upstairs flat. Our company is landlord for both properties however the shop below is a full repairing and insurance lease. Exit from the flat above is over a flat roof that is the rear of the shop below to stairs that lead down. The Fire Safety Order leads us to be concerned over fire serparation for the flat roof exit but does not seem to cover the ceiling of the shop for the actual dwelling above. I would appreciate any advice on this and also, if anyone has experience, could the shop tennent be made to put right and fire separation needed.
Regards Gazbut
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
I think if I was the tenant in the shop below, my fire risk assessment of the shops work activities would conclude the fire risk are 'low and no further action was required.
What type of business does the shop tennant under take?
Sounds to me like a landlord trying to duck their responsibility for fire safety and passing costs on to their tennants.
Is that cynical or is it just convenient to use a risk assessment to give the desired answer?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Ultimately much of this is down to the terms of the leases, but if I was the shop owner, I'd be concerned if my lease included for damage to the roof caused by the occupants of the flat.
Similarly as the flat occupant, I'd be concerned that my safety was put at risk by the shop.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user 
|
Originally Posted by: gazbut  Hi all, I need some advice on fire speraration requirements between a shop and an upstairs flat. Our company is landlord for both properties however the shop below is a full repairing and insurance lease. Exit from the flat above is over a flat roof that is the rear of the shop below to stairs that lead down. The Fire Safety Order leads us to be concerned over fire serparation for the flat roof exit but does not seem to cover the ceiling of the shop for the actual dwelling above. I would appreciate any advice on this and also, if anyone has experience, could the shop tennent be made to put right and fire separation needed.
Regards Gazbut
A couple of issues. In my opinion the landlord will be the responsible person so it don't matter what is required the landlord is responsible.
What is the usual access/egress to/from the first floor flat, throught the shop, seperate door front or rear, external stairs ???
Is the normal access on opposite side to the rear 'over roof' exit'.
Is the roof exit provided with fall protection across the route to the stairs?
Has the rear exit been fire risk assessed?
If means of escape is provided in different directions and if a fire occurs that involves the flat roof, can escape be made through the other entrance and turning away from the fire?
The above is off the top of my head and without the benefit of actually seeing the location, I hope I have helped.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user 
|
I had a similar situation a while back where someone from another department wanted to purchase two flats directly above shope premises which was also a restaurant. I asked my FRA officer to check out the premises. He could not verify the fire loading or separation of the ceiling between the flats and restaurant because of no access, but did identify sunken lights in the ceiling. The problem here is a specialist would have to take intrusive samples of the ceiling and quite likely would have identified poor fire separation...the flats were not purchased.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Have a look at Approved Document B for guidance on separation between different purpose groups.
https://www.gov.im/media/1346181/approved-document-b-2000-with-2002-amendments.pdf
- 9.11 (page 67) says that floors between different purpose groups shoi=uld be a compartment floor
- Table A1 (page 116) says the fire resistance should be a minimum of 60 mins (although it could be more, so do read the document)
I am sure BS9999 also gives similar advice but I do not have a copy to hand right now
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
BS999 Table 22 also says 60mins
Landlords responsibility to pay if work required.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
We had a similar situation. As landlord we undertook to provide 60 minute fire separation between the ground and first floor when the upper floors of the building were refurbished. The upper floors had previously been left empty for a considerable time. Some less than acceptable wiring above the ground floor false ceiling that had been done by the ground floor tenant was also corrected by us and the, (considerable), bill for that element was passed on to the tenant. We also took the opportunity to install fire detection above the ground floor ceiling, linked to the alarm for the upper floor offices, in order to provide early warning of a fire on the ground floor.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.