Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Irish member  
#1 Posted : 06 March 2018 15:23:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Irish member

Caustic Soda has a H314 ( causes severe skin burns and eye damage) but no H4xx Hazard Statement ,  any one know why not when in part 6 of an SDS it states

"ENVIRONMENTAL PRECAUTIONS Spillages or uncontrolled discharges into watercourses must be IMMEDIATELY alerted to the Environmental Agency or other appropriate regulatory body."

Edited by user 06 March 2018 15:46:56(UTC)  | Reason: and x to many

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 06 March 2018 15:34:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Sorry what is H4xxx?

https://echa.europa.eu/information-on-chemicals/cl-inventory-database/-/discli/details/162534

Caustic Soda monohydrate has 23 notified classifications on the ECHA substance profile all assigning Skin Corrosive Category 1A for which the hazard statement is H314 pictogram GHS05  (corrosive) and signal word Danger

Your supplier will have devised the information upon their Safety Data Sheet (and labelling) so it is probably best to ask them especially if competitors are providing different information

Forgot to mention if this is a US originated/formatted SDS they are not obliged to classify or include environmental hazards as SDS come under OSHA regulation whilst the environment is under EPA control

Edited by user 06 March 2018 15:38:42(UTC)  | Reason: added comment regarding US SDS

Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 06 March 2018 15:34:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Sorry what is H4xxx?

https://echa.europa.eu/information-on-chemicals/cl-inventory-database/-/discli/details/162534

Caustic Soda monohydrate has 23 notified classifications on the ECHA substance profile all assigning Skin Corrosive Category 1A for which the hazard statement is H314 pictogram GHS05  (corrosive) and signal word Danger

Your supplier will have devised the information upon their Safety Data Sheet (and labelling) so it is probably best to ask them especially if competitors are providing different information

Forgot to mention if this is a US originated/formatted SDS they are not obliged to classify or include environmental hazards as SDS come under OSHA regulation whilst the environment is under EPA control

Edited by user 06 March 2018 15:38:42(UTC)  | Reason: added comment regarding US SDS

Irish member  
#4 Posted : 06 March 2018 15:46:21(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Irish member

H400 Very toxic to aquatic life. H410 Very toxic to aquatic life with long lasting effects. H412 Harmful to aquatic life with long lasting effects. H413 May cause long lasting harmful effects to aquatic life.

H4xx

A Kurdziel  
#5 Posted : 06 March 2018 15:53:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Hazard statements under GHS ie H4xx are:

H400: Very toxic to aquatic life

H401: Toxic to aquatic life

H402: Harmful to aquatic life

H410: Very toxic to aquatic life with long-lasting effects

H411: Toxic to aquatic life with long-lasting effects

H412: Harmful to aquatic life with long-lasting effects

H413: May cause long-lasting harmful effects to aquatic life

H420: Harms public health and the environment by destroying ozone in the upper atmosphere

And caustic soda is none of the above-

Irish member  
#6 Posted : 06 March 2018 15:56:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Irish member

and thats my question,  you lose a tanker of Caustic in to a water way I suggest it will

H401: Toxic to aquatic life

H402: Harmful to aquatic life

yes it will dilute  but ?

DaveBridle  
#7 Posted : 06 March 2018 16:07:01(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DaveBridle

Caustic soda is used as drain/pipe cleaner hence why it doesn't have your H4xx Hazard Statement.

Irish member  
#8 Posted : 06 March 2018 16:16:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Irish member

Thats a good point,  but just because its used as such doesn’t make it right. I am thinking of industrial quantities, 10k-50k liters 30-60% .  

Diesel and white spirts both H411

what are the deciding factors for determining H4xx status. ( and I'm not a chemist)

A Kurdziel  
#9 Posted : 06 March 2018 16:30:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Toxic is a specific technical definition. A toxic substance is something that is absorbed by the organisms and causes adverse physiological effects ie it kills them. Harmful is similar but is less likely to kill them. Caustic soda is corrosive not toxic and thus there is no Hazard Statement 4xxx for that as it very quickly disperses and essentially leaves no residue. A pesticide or herbicide might be classified as toxic to aqueous life forms as it will be absorbed by the organisms cause and long term harm. Dumping a tanker load of anything (including strangely pure water) into a water course will cause some ecological harm, but they are not listed under the GHS regs.

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
Irish member on 07/03/2018(UTC)
fairlieg  
#10 Posted : 06 March 2018 16:37:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
fairlieg

Originally Posted by: Irish member Go to Quoted Post

Thats a good point,  but just because its used as such doesn’t make it right. I am thinking of industrial quantities, 10k-50k liters 30-60% .  

Diesel and white spirts both H411

what are the deciding factors for determining H4xx status. ( and I'm not a chemist)

Hydrocarbons do not dissolve in water like Sodium Hydroxide does.  It creates a peak in pH and makes Na and OH ions available which can be harmful.  The concetrations you mention may be tollerable if discharged as NaOH also reacts with CO2 and other organic acids (just guessing though).  It does not bioaccumulate or perisist in the environement either so it is unlikey to cause an issue too far from the source of the spillage into the watercourse.

A Kurdziel  
#11 Posted : 06 March 2018 16:46:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

In the UK you cannot dump ANYTHING into watercourse even water without permission from the Environment Agency, let alone a tanker full of caustic soda.

fairlieg  
#12 Posted : 06 March 2018 18:02:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
fairlieg

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

In the UK you cannot dump ANYTHING into watercourse even water without permission from the Environment Agency, let alone a tanker full of caustic soda.

What I meant by tollerable is that they may well be purposely (a control measure identified from a risk assessment for example) made up to those concentrations so that in the event of a spillage the impact would be less than if mixed at a greater conc.

I was not suggesting that discharging is tollerable

There is a site in Ireland on the Shannon that processes bauxite into alumina, the process requires high concerntraions of castic soda and they have many control measures to prevent spillages and contact with people there

Hsquared14  
#13 Posted : 07 March 2018 12:17:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hsquared14

I think that the issue may stem from the fact that the H400 range of warnings is derived from things like Chemical Oxygen Demand and Biological Oxygen Demand - from memory (and it is from a long time ago!!) I don't think Caustic Soda triggers the limits on these.

Roundtuit  
#14 Posted : 07 March 2018 15:28:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Refer to one of the principle drivers behind the REACH/CLP regulations - consistent information throughout the supply chain

Sodium Hydroxide was in the first phase of CLH (Harmonised Classification) added to table 3 of the CLP regulation

Based on all available evidence and submission only H314 applies to this substance in its purer forms >5% (lower classifications apply the more diluted it becomes and below 0.5% no classification applies)

https://echa.europa.eu/information-on-chemicals/cl-inventory-database/-/discli/details/134413

Roundtuit  
#15 Posted : 07 March 2018 15:28:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Refer to one of the principle drivers behind the REACH/CLP regulations - consistent information throughout the supply chain

Sodium Hydroxide was in the first phase of CLH (Harmonised Classification) added to table 3 of the CLP regulation

Based on all available evidence and submission only H314 applies to this substance in its purer forms >5% (lower classifications apply the more diluted it becomes and below 0.5% no classification applies)

https://echa.europa.eu/information-on-chemicals/cl-inventory-database/-/discli/details/134413

Users browsing this topic
Guest (2)
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.