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Dawson36394  
#1 Posted : 19 March 2018 10:15:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Dawson36394

Hi, Can anyone please advise if it is common practise to store waste solvents / chemicals in un-sealed drums / bottles to allow for venting?  It doesn't seem right from the guidance I've read but I just wanted to double check.  Thanks in advance.

Kate  
#2 Posted : 19 March 2018 11:01:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

The accidental release section of the sds normally tells you to store recovered liquid in sealed containers. 

There are a few exceptions (isocyanate is one I know of) where this section says to the contrary the containers must not be sealed.  The reason for not sealing is that the material can react with atmospheric moisture producing a pressure build-up in the container.  This is not the case with typical solvents. 

I suggest checking the accidental release section of the sds (even though you may not have had an accidental release!) of the chemicals you have for the avoidance of doubt.

You might also need to consider the contaminants in the waste solvent and whether they are reactive.

And to answer your question directly - no, it is not common practice. It is however good practice to leave an air gap at the top of the container (that is not to fill it to the brim) to allow for thermal expansion that could result in over-pressurising.

thanks 2 users thanked Kate for this useful post.
Dawson36394 on 19/03/2018(UTC), Charlie Brown on 19/03/2018(UTC)
Woolf13  
#3 Posted : 19 March 2018 12:48:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Woolf13

Hi,

In short no it is not. Would you decant bleach into drinks bottles at home? The same good practice principles of using designated storage containers and replacing the lids to prevent accidental spillage applies.

    Store solvents in properly labelled, suitable containers. Use dispensers where possible to keep evaporation to a minimum and reduce spillage. Keep lids on containers unless contents are being poured or dipped etc. Use sealed containers for solvent waste. Waste should be removed by an appropriate licensed waste company. Dependent on the type of solvent it may be classed as hazardous waste etc.

    The following links and information may prove useful if you have not already seen them:

    http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg273.pdf

    http://www.hse.gov.uk/construction/healthrisks/hazardous-substances/solvents.htm

    thanks 1 user thanked Woolf13 for this useful post.
    Dawson36394 on 19/03/2018(UTC)
    A Kurdziel  
    #4 Posted : 19 March 2018 14:46:22(UTC)
    Rank: Super forum user
    A Kurdziel

    Most of the time there is no significant increase in pressure for solvent waste even if it is very hot day. I have seen Winchesters (2. 5 litre bottles) of solvent burst but this is most likely due to incompatible materials being mixed together and reacting in the bottle.  I would expect solvents to be stored with the lids on to prevent spillage and the escape of volatile vapours which might be harmful or flammable.

    thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
    Dawson36394 on 20/03/2018(UTC)
    Kate  
    #5 Posted : 19 March 2018 15:09:31(UTC)
    Rank: Super forum user
    Kate

    The need for an air gap is very memorable for me as my own failure to leave one in a winchester of IPA (that's isopropyl alcohol, not India pale ale) resulted in it bursting on a hot day and my lab becoming full of vapours which had an effect on me much like what you would get from consuming too much of the other kind of IPA.

    It did only happen once though ...

    thanks 1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
    A Kurdziel on 20/03/2018(UTC)
    biker1  
    #6 Posted : 19 March 2018 17:35:27(UTC)
    Rank: Super forum user
    biker1

    I worked in the waste industry many years ago, and one of our waste streams was waste solvents. They were always kept in sealed containers, and as soon as possible transferred to a dedicated compound for bulking up for incineration, with suitable precautions (earthing arrangments, zone 2 rated FLT, flame arrestors) for those that were flammable. Costs for incineration would rise dramatically if the solvent was chlorinated (you need scrubbed incinerators for chlorinated solvents, even a small amount of chlorine), but then they found that they could burn them in cement kilns, so don't know what happened on this.

    Not common practice to leave them in unsealed containers - there would be either an ignition risk, or for others an effect on people in the vicinity, as per another post on this.

    thanks 1 user thanked biker1 for this useful post.
    Dawson36394 on 20/03/2018(UTC)
    Dawson36394  
    #7 Posted : 20 March 2018 09:08:52(UTC)
    Rank: Forum user
    Dawson36394

    Thanks very much for all replies.  Much appreciated. Sometimes you doubt yourself.

    Kate  
    #8 Posted : 20 March 2018 09:25:07(UTC)
    Rank: Super forum user
    Kate

    Yes, I know the feeling.  This forum does have its uses in checking what you think you know!

    chris42  
    #9 Posted : 20 March 2018 09:31:38(UTC)
    Rank: Super forum user
    chris42

    If it is a high VOC solvent and you leave the lid off, it won’t be there when you come back. As it is waste solvent that may be the idea, but not environmentally friendly.

    I would say what you were reading is more likely to be the solvent should be in a sealed container which is then stored in a well ventilated place.

    A Kurdziel  
    #10 Posted : 20 March 2018 09:42:15(UTC)
    Rank: Super forum user
    A Kurdziel

    Originally Posted by: biker1 Go to Quoted Post

    I worked in the waste industry many years ago, and one of our waste streams was waste solvents. They were always kept in sealed containers, and as soon as possible transferred to a dedicated compound for bulking up for incineration, with suitable precautions (earthing arrangments, zone 2 rated FLT, flame arrestors) for those that were flammable. Costs for incineration would rise dramatically if the solvent was chlorinated (you need scrubbed incinerators for chlorinated solvents, even a small amount of chlorine), but then they found that they could burn them in cement kilns, so don't know what happened on this.

    Not common practice to leave them in unsealed containers - there would be either an ignition risk, or for others an effect on people in the vicinity, as per another post on this.

    Thank you Biker for putting to sleep the Health and Safety myth that chlorinated waste cannot be mixed with non-chlorinated because it might react explosively! I have even read it in guidance published by “experts”. Chlorinated compounds, must be kept away from non-chlorinated because if you burn chlorinated compounds ( is the usually fate of solvents) you risk creating nasty toxic compounds like dioxins.

    Hsquared14  
    #11 Posted : 20 March 2018 11:09:38(UTC)
    Rank: Super forum user
    Hsquared14

    I have 11 years in the paint industry and can also confirm that all solvents including wastes must be kept in sealed containers.   The last thing you want is stray solvent vapour drifting around.  Someone else has quite rightly said that anything with an isocyanate content needs to be vented otherwise the drum can fill up with CO2 not something you really want to see.  And here it is a definite do as I say and not as I do because I vividly remember having to bury a drum that was about to blow in 2 Tonnes of wet sand and then having to get a marksman to shoot a hole in the drum to let the gas out before it exploded under the pressure.  Not something I would want to repeat!  So the moral is that you need to really know your waste streams and know how each material should be stored.

    thanks 1 user thanked Hsquared14 for this useful post.
    Kate on 20/03/2018(UTC)
    A Kurdziel  
    #12 Posted : 20 March 2018 12:18:57(UTC)
    Rank: Super forum user
    A Kurdziel

    Originally Posted by: Hsquared14 Go to Quoted Post

    I have 11 years in the paint industry and can also confirm that all solvents including wastes must be kept in sealed containers.   The last thing you want is stray solvent vapour drifting around.  Someone else has quite rightly said that anything with an isocyanate content needs to be vented otherwise the drum can fill up with CO2 not something you really want to see.  And here it is a definite do as I say and not as I do because I vividly remember having to bury a drum that was about to blow in 2 Tonnes of wet sand and then having to get a marksman to shoot a hole in the drum to let the gas out before it exploded under the pressure.  Not something I would want to repeat!  So the moral is that you need to really know your waste streams and know how each material should be stored.

    Burying it in wet sand! Marksmen! What an exciting life some of our members lead!

    For my part DSE assessments give me a fit of the vapours!

    Hsquared14  
    #13 Posted : 20 March 2018 12:50:06(UTC)
    Rank: Super forum user
    Hsquared14

    It wasn't a pretty sight when we pierced the drum a stream of what can only be described as snot like PU adhesive poured out of the hole (it was an air gun so no heat ignition risk and it was solvent free adhesive).  It was a lesson learned and we made sure we didn't let it happen again!!!

    To quote an old Brummie term I was "sweating blue bags" through the whole process!

    Kate  
    #14 Posted : 20 March 2018 13:36:55(UTC)
    Rank: Super forum user
    Kate

    I think you should probably write a book.

    biker1  
    #15 Posted : 20 March 2018 15:13:14(UTC)
    Rank: Super forum user
    biker1

    Originally Posted by: Hsquared14 Go to Quoted Post

    I have 11 years in the paint industry and can also confirm that all solvents including wastes must be kept in sealed containers.   The last thing you want is stray solvent vapour drifting around.  Someone else has quite rightly said that anything with an isocyanate content needs to be vented otherwise the drum can fill up with CO2 not something you really want to see.  And here it is a definite do as I say and not as I do because I vividly remember having to bury a drum that was about to blow in 2 Tonnes of wet sand and then having to get a marksman to shoot a hole in the drum to let the gas out before it exploded under the pressure.  Not something I would want to repeat!  So the moral is that you need to really know your waste streams and know how each material should be stored.

    The things we used to get up to! Reminds me of the acetylene bombs we used to make as kids. Test tube of calcium carbide suspended above the water level in a pop bottle, throw a stone at it from a distance to tip it over, hey presto instant acetylene, which would start to build pressure, and being a highly unstable gas it was only a matter of time before it exploded. We also made Nitrogen Tri-iodide, a contact explosive that got more potent as it dried out, similarly to Picric Acid.

    Those were the days, although it's a wonder some of us survived! Wouldn't even think of doing such things these days, I hasten to add.

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