When would you advise occupants of purpose built flats to evacuate in a fire alarm activation?

If the the flats achieved 3, 4  floors maximum, what would your answer be? The evacuation routes and compartmentation are in good condition , good fire doors throughout, fire alarm in communal areas . Good doors to flats, may or not be on self closers.

Would you advise always,  never. only the flat in fire,

Thanks

My old Mum lives on the 1st floor of a small block with a 'Stay Put' policy - I've told her that as long as she can walk, she gets out. I'd prefer her to shiver in the garden than wait for help.

I am really sorry to be critical here, but this is the IOSH discussion group and not letters to the editor of Coffee Break Magazine.

When the OP asked for opinions, I suggested s/he meant professional opinions and not just what "I'd tell my mum" or "I'd be off like a shot!'

For what it's worth, I do not know. None of us do. The fire risk assessment and/or the landlord will know. My gut feeling is that if there is a fire alarm fitted, some action will be necessary. Many stay put buildings have no alarm whatsover.

So ask the landlord or managing agents - and please, lets stop guessing

My opinion is that the manager / landlord / letting agent does not know.

Compartmentalisation may be compromised during construction or refurbishment (have you lifted every ceiling tile and inspection hatch to check? validated the sealant is intumescent and not just a general mastic? no gaps under the floating floor at a doorway?) / the doors may not meet the design specified resistance (installation issues or someone cutting costs) / there may be unknowns in the structure (design by desk top study rather than physical test of the proposed build including contractors using "equivalent of" rather than "as specified").

Soft furnishings have a fire resistance test - the rest of our worldly goods TV / Tumble Dryer / Tablet Phone....

So regardless of an FRA based upon document review and observation of the visible as with any other time I hear an alarm that is not pre-warned as a test I am out of the building

Originally Posted by: stonecold

Originally Posted by: Messey

I am really sorry to be critical here, but this is the IOSH discussion group and not letters to the editor of Coffee Break Magazine.When the OP asked for opinions, I suggested s/he meant professional opinions and not just what "I'd tell my mum" or "I'd be off like a shot!'For what it's worth, I do not know. None of us do. The fire risk assessment and/or the landlord will know. My gut feeling is that if there is a fire alarm fitted, some action will be necessary. Many stay put buildings have no alarm whatsover.So ask the landlord or managing agents - and please, lets stop guessing

Dear messey, the content of my posts is really none of your business. I think I made my point in what I wrote. Your reply is quite typical of this forum that’s why I don’t post very often. Very quick to criticsise what someone else has posted. See it all the time.

I think those of you who think that landlords will know what the right thing to do in a fire is are living in cloud cuckoo land.  I have done landlords surveys and insurance surveys on blocks of flats, houses in multiple occupation and care homes since 1995.  Trust me landlords DO NOT know.  Those who have a fire risk assessment mostly  haven't read them and haven't implemented the recomendations.   As for the the approximately 50% who haven't got a fire risk assessment a good 10% have no intention of doing a fire risk risk assessment and don't care what the consequences are so long as they get their rent.  I know these are sweeping statements but truly I think I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of landlords who have put good fire precautions in place, have asked for professional advice and acted on it.

So my considered professional advice is "Get Out and Stay Out" and I would give that advice to my mum, my auntie Mabel and the man on the Clapham omnibus.  I'd print it in 6ft high letters on the side of the tower block, send letters to every editor of every magazine, newspaper or on line chat group.  The safest place to be in a fire is well away from it.

I think I would treat this as though everyone in the block of flats is in a working envirnonment.

Should the alarm sound, I'd suggest leave the building anyway for the obvious reason of being on the safe side.

If the landlord/management or maintenance team of the flats arrange weekly or monthly drills that are checked and recorded etc then maybe through these drills a discussion or understanding can be held/agreed on what best procedure(s) to follow if the alarm is triggered moving forward.

If someone sets the alarm of through say something as simple as burning toast and the whole building goes off, i'm pretty sure said person isnt going to shout from the rooftops and say 'false alarm', 'don't panic' etc, or tell everyone before people start leaving, so as I mentioned earlier, just evacuate.

What you will find is this will be have been defined during the build and if there is a stay put policy, the usual approach for new build, there is no sounding alarm so you would not be aware of any fire incident necessrily. Each flat is built as a separate compartment and if designed and managed correctly should provide protection. However as we saw in June this is not always the case. If I was aware of a fire I would evacuate as that would indicate to me that it was near and safety was being compromised.

Originally Posted by: O'Donnell54548

I understand the reasons why people are advising 'get out stay out', but would ask that you consider why this is not always the safest option.    

But it definitely is the safest option for the individual who gets out - you're not going to die from the fire (if it exists) if you got out.  So you seem to be advocating that individuals reduce their own chances of survival for the good of the average.

Stay Put policy - assumes

designed compartmentalisation is fit for purpose

building has been constructed as designed

the local brigade can respond in x minutes with suitable and sufficient appliances and are not elsewhere

the surrounding stations (and the number of available appliances) at the time of design/build are still present

Too many unknowns?