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MJT110474  
#1 Posted : 22 March 2018 12:49:54(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
MJT110474

I am constantly trying to ensure that my HAVS monitoring is as accurate as I can make it on the budget I have, and have all of the data supplied by the manufacturers of the grinders we use, including 4.5", 9", pin grinders and air driven pin grinders. The issus I have is that I am finding it nigh on impossible to get any information from suppliers or manufacturers of the tools used on these, for instance, wire cup brushes, cutting discs, grinding discs and sanding pads for 4.5 & 9"grinders, and grinding stones, flap wheels, steel bits etc for pin grinders.

Having previously used all of these myself on the tools, I am acutely aware that the vibration levels are not the same for different tools on the same grinder. However, I would like to gain more accurate information on this but the suppliers of these parts are all telling me they are not required to give a M/S2 rating for their products.

Can anyone offer any advise (other that spending a fortune on a vibration monitor (we already have a trigger time monitor but this only records time not actual vibration levels))

Thanks in advance.

Waz  
#2 Posted : 09 April 2018 11:22:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Waz

Suggest working with a tolerance limit for each tool from the basis of the grinder e.g. +/- 10%.  I agree with the suppliers of the 'attachments' they are not the tool, so do not require to provide the 'acceleration' figures for their product, as it is the equipment that offers the vibration issue.

I would think that the HSE would consider this reasonable.

thanks 1 user thanked Waz for this useful post.
MJT110474 on 09/04/2018(UTC)
descarte8  
#3 Posted : 09 April 2018 11:37:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
descarte8

Please don't waste any more money on measuring the problem, the following has all the practical information and advice you need to "reasonably" manage the situation:

www.hse.gov.uk/vibration/hav/source-vibration-magnitude-app3.pdf

If your pupose to more accurately measure the emmission level (which will change every day, with every person, with every different disc and material combination = not practical to measure) is due to your current usage Vs exposure being too close the the limit level, spend your time and money on reducing the exposure (remove need for grinder use - use alternative tools or methods for weld preparation, not buying "green" materials etc...) instead of measuring - which will not solve anything and will still require you to do all practical methods of reduction anyway.

Apologies for the grumpy reply, full of cold....

The question should be, how can I reduce vibration exposure for this particular activitiy,
eg. quick google search
MJT110474  
#4 Posted : 09 April 2018 12:20:43(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
MJT110474

Originally Posted by: descarte8 Go to Quoted Post

Please don't waste any more money on measuring the problem, the following has all the practical information and advice you need to "reasonably" manage the situation:

www.hse.gov.uk/vibration/hav/source-vibration-magnitude-app3.pdf

If your pupose to more accurately measure the emmission level (which will change every day, with every person, with every different disc and material combination = not practical to measure) is due to your current usage Vs exposure being too close the the limit level, spend your time and money on reducing the exposure (remove need for grinder use - use alternative tools or methods for weld preparation, not buying "green" materials etc...) instead of measuring - which will not solve anything and will still require you to do all practical methods of reduction anyway.

Apologies for the grumpy reply, full of cold....

The question should be, how can I reduce vibration exposure for this particular activitiy,
eg. quick google search

Thanks for the info,

Unfortunately, we make bespoke pipeline items that have to be hand burnt and cut back to fit around (so no flat cuts) exact individual pipe sections, so these are mostly finished off in-house. We have previously tried using pipe burners, but they are not close enough to suit deviations in pipeline shapes / sizes. We are already carrying out full monitoring / working time reductions / job share / anti vibration equipment and PPE etc. However, I am just trying to be as thorough as I can for the sake of our employees health.

Edited by user 09 April 2018 12:24:40(UTC)  | Reason: no flat cuts

descarte8  
#5 Posted : 09 April 2018 12:46:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
descarte8

Although Im not an expert in pipe cutting, I know in our similar operations we used something alike the:

https://www.dwt-pipetools.com/en/pipe-cutting-beveling/pipe-cold-cutting/pipe-cold-cutting-machine/

system, to prep pipes, note this one can do "radial severing of pipes, simultaneous cutting and beveling pipe, end forming before weld preparation, inside-turning of pipe ends, flange facing for repair of flanges on-site" if your concern was over a flat cut not being suitable?  They also have systems for "Pipe Chamfering" - you might find it even quicker and consistant than using a grinder - we did this for nuclear quality welds.

That was just the first result from google, I was just suggesting there may be an alternative system out there to avoid grinder use - perhaps not completely but even if it was for 25% of the time that would be significant?

thanks 1 user thanked descarte8 for this useful post.
MJT110474 on 10/04/2018(UTC)
descarte8  
#6 Posted : 09 April 2018 12:50:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
descarte8

Ps. On a seperate note I hope you don't mean anti-vibration gloves when you refer to PPE

Stuart Smiles  
#7 Posted : 09 April 2018 13:46:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Stuart Smiles

In use measurements we took were approximately double manufacturer recommendations on magnitude, so be careful as to what you test, because you will create a headache from the reduced exposure times you become subject to, reducing as low as possible...
thanks 1 user thanked Stuart Smiles for this useful post.
MJT110474 on 10/04/2018(UTC)
MJT110474  
#8 Posted : 10 April 2018 06:24:57(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
MJT110474

Originally Posted by: descarte8 Go to Quoted Post

Ps. On a seperate note I hope you don't mean anti-vibration gloves when you refer to PPE

I take it you don't recommend these gloves?

MJT110474  
#9 Posted : 10 April 2018 06:30:07(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
MJT110474

Originally Posted by: descarte8 Go to Quoted Post

Although Im not an expert in pipe cutting, I know in our similar operations we used something alike the:

https://www.dwt-pipetools.com/en/pipe-cutting-beveling/pipe-cold-cutting/pipe-cold-cutting-machine/

system, to prep pipes, note this one can do "radial severing of pipes, simultaneous cutting and beveling pipe, end forming before weld preparation, inside-turning of pipe ends, flange facing for repair of flanges on-site" if your concern was over a flat cut not being suitable?  They also have systems for "Pipe Chamfering" - you might find it even quicker and consistant than using a grinder - we did this for nuclear quality welds.

That was just the first result from google, I was just suggesting there may be an alternative system out there to avoid grinder use - perhaps not completely but even if it was for 25% of the time that would be significant?

Like I said previously, we don't have straight (this includes with bevelled edge) cuts, they are shaped to wrap around the pipe they are welding to to make Tee sections so this machine is of no use for those tasks. But thanks for the info.

Oldroyd19659  
#10 Posted : 12 April 2018 15:16:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Oldroyd19659

This is a good product ..it produces a report for each individual showing both trigger time and actual exposure. http://www.reactec.com/
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