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CdC  
#1 Posted : 09 May 2018 07:09:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CdC

Just wanted some advice from the collective experience how this would be evaluated:

The HSE function is currently reporting to the facilities team, in the past has reported to HR. There are 2 layers of reporting to get to the managing director, which currently means that every presentation or project has to be approved twice before it even gets introduced to the MD. There has in the past also been conflict of interest when the next line up from HSE was trying to influence how incidents get reported. One line below the MD have stated they don't have enough time to have the department report to them.

So, from the department's  view there is a drive to change this complicated structure to get more clarity. Leadership commitment is not an issue and are fully supported of this. So my question is:

If you were an MD what benefits would you get from having HSE report directly to you? What would be convincing arguments to take this department on as a direct reportee?

Or from your own perspective, what advantages did you get from directly reporting to the MD?

I want to evaluate whether it's worthwhile my team pursueing this or if I continue to make the current status quo work, even if that means extra effort.

Hsquared14  
#2 Posted : 09 May 2018 08:45:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hsquared14

The word that immediately springs to my mind is objectivity.  By reporting directly and not having a vested interested in any particular department or group of employees then you can give an unbiased and objective assessment of performance and your reports will have more credibility with senior management.  As this is a two way street then I would think it benefits both sides. 

JL  
#3 Posted : 09 May 2018 09:59:21(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
JL

We have a large company but I still report directly to the CEO and MD every quarter on H&S issues, since we introduced this routine (over a year ago) we have seen huge changes in the attitude, engagement and interest of top management. It was clear to me before I got the quarterly reporting underway that there are few elements within any business that have the same interest or agenda as the H&S department and our message and questions are usually unfiltered between shop floor and top management.

By reporting directly to top management its puts pressure on middle management to get things moving as the questions about safety come from the top instead of trying to reach the top.  

thanks 1 user thanked JL for this useful post.
JohnW on 10/05/2018(UTC)
Hsquared14  
#4 Posted : 09 May 2018 11:10:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hsquared14

Originally Posted by: JL Go to Quoted Post

We have a large company but I still report directly to the CEO and MD every quarter on H&S issues, since we introduced this routine (over a year ago) we have seen huge changes in the attitude, engagement and interest of top management. It was clear to me before I got the quarterly reporting underway that there are few elements within any business that have the same interest or agenda as the H&S department and our message and questions are usually unfiltered between shop floor and top management.

By reporting directly to top management its puts pressure on middle management to get things moving as the questions about safety come from the top instead of trying to reach the top.  

Real world example of what I was trying to say!! 

Edited by user 09 May 2018 11:10:56(UTC)  | Reason: Mucked up the quote!!

CdC  
#5 Posted : 09 May 2018 12:59:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CdC

Thank you to you both for your reply.

We actually report on the HSE performance once a month too, but our line management is not direct to the MD nor to any other member of the board. Does this make a difference?

JL  
#6 Posted : 09 May 2018 13:22:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
JL

Originally Posted by: CdC Go to Quoted Post

Thank you to you both for your reply.

We actually report on the HSE performance once a month too, but our line management is not direct to the MD nor to any other member of the board. Does this make a difference?

It will  make a huge difference if your message gets past through people who dont have the same interest as your department. the fewer touches between shop floor and top mangment the better, you can measure the differance in a very short time
Charlie Brown  
#7 Posted : 09 May 2018 17:31:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Charlie Brown

Totally agree, make sure the MD knows all about corporate manslaughter and how they are going to swing if they let anyone else come between you and them and sit back and watch the magic. Accountability has a tendency to have a big impact upon those who might not otherwise see how H&S should be placed above money, convenience or anything else.

Originally Posted by: JL Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: CdC Go to Quoted Post

Thank you to you both for your reply.

We actually report on the HSE performance once a month too, but our line management is not direct to the MD nor to any other member of the board. Does this make a difference?

It will  make a huge difference if your message gets past through people who dont have the same interest as your department. the fewer touches between shop floor and top mangment the better, you can measure the differance in a very short time
O'Donnell54548  
#8 Posted : 11 May 2018 06:11:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
O'Donnell54548

Totally agree, make sure the MD knows all about corporate manslaughter and how they are going to swing if they let anyone else come between you and them and sit back and watch the magic. Accountability has a tendency to have a big impact upon those who might not otherwise see how H&S should be placed above money, convenience or anything else.

Here we go again, send for Private Frasier (we're all doomed!) lets throw the courts at the MD (even though individuals CANNOT be prosecuted under Corporate Manslaughter legislation). Cdc seek equality with other departments in your business with regards to reporting, I think you will find that few of these have a direct line to the MD, so ask yourself "why should you?". HSE is only one element of a succesful company, with no more or less importance than any other. If you feel that you are being mis-represented in your current reporting structure then identify why this is, and then concentrate on trying to fix this.   

Charlie Brown  
#9 Posted : 12 May 2018 21:47:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Charlie Brown

No, individuals can't be charged under CMCHA but I am not too sure I would like to be the MD who has to explain to the Exec why the company was charged under the act. Just think about the implications for a moment, loss of money in legals, fines etc, loss of reputation and having to shoulder the guilt that someone has been injured or killed.

Additionally, individuals can be charged under the HSWA though and this is something that seems to be happening more and more since the introduction of CMCHA, don't take my word for it, take a look at some of the convictions over the past year or so.

I retired a couple of years ago now but prior to this I worked for a large hire company and the MD at the time seemed to think H&S was just an inconvenience to the point he was prepared to "turn a blind eye" to things for the sake of getting machines out to the customers. It was only when we had a new H&S Director appointed that the MD had the possibility of individual prossecution pointed out to him he changed his tune very quickly and was then very keen to know all about and become involved in the company's H&S stats, problems, initiatives etc. Not only that, he also insisted each department work closely with us in H&S to ensure everything was done properly. Strangely enough, we saw a dramatic fall in incidents across the board because H&S now had his backing.

For the sake of clarity, I don't think all MDs are unconcerned about H&S but I do believe that sometimes other things can get in the way and without the H&S department having direct access to the person who can make things happen some pretty important safety concerns can be disregarded or put on hold for the sake of profit.

Is this the case with the OPs company? I don't know but it does seem from their comments that H&S might not be the priority it should be.

BTW, I actually think H&S adds more to the succes of a company than what might be immediately obvious.

Edited by user 12 May 2018 21:59:03(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

A Kurdziel  
#10 Posted : 14 May 2018 08:34:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

It does not matter to who the HSW team report. What matters is what they report and what happens then.  I liked reporting to the operations director as they could make things happen on the shop floor. The HR people I have dealt with seem to see things in black and white (i.e. who do we sack?)  and are not interested in root causes etc. They seem to not understand the idea of a corporate culture. This could be because they see themselves as being generalists and capable of working in any corporate environment and so try to avoid getting stuck into to the nitty gritty of the business.   

Charlie Brown  
#11 Posted : 14 May 2018 17:37:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Charlie Brown

If the ops director could make things happen then go with that. Whatever works in the situation you are in but actually, someone up the chain has to take H&S seriously and make it happen. In my own personal experience though it was the MD and until he took it seriously nobody else saw it as a priority. And err yeah, HR being the touchy feely people they tend to be are not in my opnion the people who would be the ideal people for H&S to report to, just sayin'

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

It does not matter to who the HSW team report. What matters is what they report and what happens then.  I liked reporting to the operations director as they could make things happen on the shop floor. The HR people I have dealt with seem to see things in black and white (i.e. who do we sack?)  and are not interested in root causes etc. They seem to not understand the idea of a corporate culture. This could be because they see themselves as being generalists and capable of working in any corporate environment and so try to avoid getting stuck into to the nitty gritty of the business.   

Edited by user 14 May 2018 17:40:43(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

A Kurdziel  
#12 Posted : 15 May 2018 08:01:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Originally Posted by: Charlie Brown Go to Quoted Post

If the ops director could make things happen then go with that. Whatever works in the situation you are in but actually, someone up the chain has to take H&S seriously and make it happen. In my own personal experience though it was the MD and until he took it seriously nobody else saw it as a priority. And err yeah, HR being the touchy feely people they tend to be are not in my opnion the people who would be the ideal people for H&S to report to, just sayin'

Guess Who I report to now?

-give you a clue : I am off on a fun away-day on Thursday!

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