Rank: Forum user 
|
In the majority of day to day work computers and lap tops are common place. I have a regional role looking after numerous sites from a Health and Safety perspective, I have many battles and ding dongs with managers when it comes to DSE assessments. If I had to complete work station assessments with staff I'd get nothing else done so I have pushed back on managers to "manage" their own staff and get the DSE assessments completed. Yet I still get called to sites to go through "self" assessment tools because people are not comfortable or confident enough to complete them. What part of "self" don't people understand? I know there are online tools to use for DSE assessments packages available but the business won't pay out for them. As far as I'm concerned there need to be an element of empowerment and employees need to take some responsibility for knowing how to arrange their work stations, when the information has been given to them and explained. With stretching workloads and the other serious risks we have in the business I don't feel like it’s an unreasonable request for managers and employees to sort the DSE assessments out themselves as they have been armed with the correct information. Although I am a health and safety practitioner I don’t consider myself to be a DSE ergonomic expert do I need to be? For me my time is not well spent completing DSE assessments with staff. I have noticed there a day course for DSE Assessors is that overkill? Have any other people had experience of these course are they necessary to complete a DSE assessment with authority ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Seems entirely reasonable what you suggest. In large companies, its the only practical way. Are your company going to pay you to do DSE all of the time? Surely there are more important issues for you.
Not forgetting of course, in my humble opinion, the DSE Regs are an utter waste of time - since they were first drafted the use of computers has exploded across just about everybody's life. I doubt when they were first drafted, it was anticipated that computers and other devices would become so widespread in the home etc.
The DSE regs should be repealed and added as an Appendix to PUWER - to manage human factors/workstations set up that way.
|
 2 users thanked Ian Bell2 for this useful post.
|
Mersey on 25/06/2018(UTC), toe on 27/06/2018(UTC)
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
I completed a ‘free’ one day course and was frankly disturbed AND SHOCKED that people are deemed ‘competent ‘ to undertake DSE assessments after spending a mere few hours looking at powerpoint. I also don’t buy this manager’s do all argument until they have received proper training and get some valid experience. Have you considered an online solution? We use one and which closes a lot of the issues itself. We can then focus on one to one visits or refer to a specialist.
|
1 user thanked N Hancock for this useful post.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Originally Posted by: N Hancock  I completed a ‘free’ one day course and was frankly disturbed AND SHOCKED that people are deemed ‘competent ‘ to undertake DSE assessments after spending a mere few hours looking at powerpoint. I also don’t buy this manager’s do all argument until they have received proper training and get some valid experience. Have you considered an online solution? We use one and which closes a lot of the issues itself. We can then focus on one to one visits or refer to a specialist.
Hi if you could message me your provider perhaps? I'll take a look
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
I am not sure but perhaps you are expecting too much of the self-assessment tool. We use one but inevitably some more complicated cases emerge. For most people all they require is: - Take sensible breaks
- Sit correctly at your workstation
- Have a suitable workstation layout
For about 80% of people that is enough; but you do get complicated cases which actually require you to look at the workstation. Often the chair they are using is not suitable (something they inherited), they are sharing a workstation or the whole area has had a redesign. Who pays for any modifications to the workstation is it your budget or a local budget? It could be that local budget holders are trying to avoid spending this money (it has run out) and someone from H&S has to come along to release more money. What are the main risks to the business? I am asking to get a feel on your priorities. For an organisation with a lot of people doing stuff on computers etc , DSE could be an issue.
|
1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Mersey, I have similar problems with the management of DSE ( lack of) the quality and content of some DSE training is poor. I was fortunate in being able to train with posturite as an assessor, but this is not available to everyone.
In the past i addressed thself assessments by running 1 day workshops for assessors to give at least 1 person per team some idea of how to address common problems. I also found it useful to look at absence data for MSDs to give managers an idea of how much it really costs to have someone off with a bad back.
I am inclinded to agree with ian in that the DSSE regs are really past their sell by date, apparently they were going to be reviewed year before last but it has been deffered because of Brexit, not sure if I believe that one.
Nic
|
1 user thanked nic168 for this useful post.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
We have a H&S mamagement system that 'sends out' links to a self-assessment at specifoed (by my predecessor) intervals. I don't chase them up - if somebody doesn't complete theirs, so be it but I won't issue eye test vouchers & Finance won't sanction the purchase of foot rests, wrist rests, new chairs without confirmation from me. If there are several people in one group with issues, I go to a team meeting in their office and show them how to set up a workstation and get them all to adjust their chairs. Solves most of the problems in a short time so worth it. Anyone with a bigger issue, I do what I can but I'm not medically qualified so, using the mantra that ' a ompetent person knows when they're not', I then start the battle with HR to get the person to Occ Health. Unfortunately, the OH report usually just says 'suitable chair' with no detail so I have dug my heels in and insisted on a specialist assessment (from a physio etc). I concur with others that the DSE regs are not worth the paper they're written on and would be much better within PUWER or the Management Regs. (At a seminar yesterday, one speaker was firmly of the opinion that mobile working options were never likely to meet the minimum standards...)
|
2 users thanked lorna for this useful post.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user 
|
The problem with DSE assessments, and the common ill health conditions associated with their use, is that the regulations look specifically at workstations. However it is clear that the use of DSE, wither it be laptops, tablets, IPads or mobile devices is that people are now using these much more out of the work environment than within.
Users will use a computer at work, and then during any breaks they are on their mobile phone, or on theit work computer booking holidays or scanning e bay. After work they will go home and spend the next 5+ hours on IPads and mobile phones or watching a big screen TV. Come the weekend I can only guess at the amount of time they spend looking at a screen (look around you on the bus, tube, cafe, pub etc).
For these reasons you will find that many of the so-called issues with their workstation are in fact related to their excessive use outside if work hours, and no DSE assessment will address these. That is why I feel that the correct way to address this is not assessment but education and an emphasis on welfare more than being a slave to some ACOP.
|
1 user thanked O'Donnell54548 for this useful post.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
#8 Hence my view that the DSE regs are pointless, long since over taken by the explosion in home/private use of electronic devices.
|
1 user thanked Ian Bell2 for this useful post.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
It’s not just DSE: all sorts of out of work activities can impact on occupational health- the person who complains of a bad back due to having to carry the small box of paper at work, when it turns up they have spent the weekend laying flags, the mad gamer who spends every available hour on their console complaining of RSI etc. If you do a DSE assessment you must ask about out of work activities.
But you are still responsible for the bit that has been identified as work related; it just takes some teasing out. Abandoning this duty of care just because that can be hard would be wrong as it would give employers the ideal get out: how do we know that the asbestos plaques in your lungs are work related, how do we know that the hearing loss is not due to your passion for thrash metal, can you prove that the dermatitis is related to the chemicals that you rather than something in the environment?
|
1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user 
|
Originally Posted by: Ian Bell2 Seems entirely reasonable what you suggest. In large companies, its the only practical way. Are your company going to pay you to do DSE all of the time? Surely there are more important issues for you.
Not forgetting of course, in my humble opinion, the DSE Regs are an utter waste of time - since they were first drafted the use of computers has exploded across just about everybody's life. I doubt when they were first drafted, it was anticipated that computers and other devices would become so widespread in the home etc.
The DSE regs should be repealed and added as an Appendix to PUWER - to manage human factors/workstations set up that way.
Thoroughly agree with Ian - DSE regs are on my hit list come the revolution. All it needs is a reg in the Management regs and an ACOP. When the regs were put in place there were serious issues in data input centres and with secretaries who did all the typing for an organisation. Those jobs now pretty well don't exist and the pattern of work has changed so that more people DSEs but in a much less intense way. The advice from HSE hasn't kept up and is now not fit for purpose. However, that doesn't solve your immediate problem. What I would do is run a series of short seminars to explain the key details and go through the self assessment process and then leave them to it. Always remember an upper limb disorder never killed anyone and if you have risks that would kill someone then these need to take priority when allocating your time.
|
1 user thanked Hsquared14 for this useful post.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
The workplace is a different place from years ago i.e. 1992 when the DSE regs were introduced, we now use modern mobile devices phones, laptops etc.. more companies are asking staff to work remotely or hot desk so the current regulations are not fit for purpose, they need to be updated as soon as possible to take in to account new working practices and equipment.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
I believe that raising awareness of hazards associated with long term use/abuse of DSE is the best way forward. Not everyone seem to be able to make the link between hours hunched over a coffee table laptop set up and backache/stiff neck the following day. Hopefully if we raise awareness of users they will take thsoe skills home and pass them on, in generation or two there will be no need for this type of assessment!
In a previous role we included a section on the form asking about DSE out side work and a rough indication of number of hours, type of device. this allowed us to target people with information that related to what they were doing rather than send everyone everthing.
It also helps to explain potential problems rather than go in and nag!
Lorna, I know what you mean about those costly and helpful OH statements" suitable chair, ergonic workstation" I even had one that said "appropriate mouse" all of which was embedded in a lengthy report quoting chunks of the DSE regs. This costly gibberish was the main driver for me becoming a DSE assessor
|
1 user thanked nic168 for this useful post.
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.