Rank: Super forum user 
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Hi,
Coming from a place of ignorance and not being a rail industry type (but I am a low tier COMAH type) so looking to learn. I am looking at a Barbour brief that details a recent prosecution by the ORR against a contractor working on a network rail project where the IP's leg was crushed by a concrete block. To quote what I am reading "Othere examples of poor supervision include failure to issue a ladder permit". My initial reaction was "a what???" but then maybe it's a rail thing? It's certainly not on the list of hazardous activities HSE lists as requiring a PTW
Interested to know, thanks,
jim
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Rank: Super forum user
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When I have to I visit construction sites to meet our FM engineers. We had a recent contract with NGBailey. They had a strict policy that ladders were to be a last resort and other means to work at height were to be used. Where ladders were the only option. ie in a riser cupboard then a permit to use them had to be issued by site manager
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I think the need or desire to issue a ladder permit will depend on the type of work to be done and the working environment in which it is to be done. In 15 years of auditing I think I came across ladder permits about 3 times, mostly in situations where ladder use had to be restricted and particular types of ladders only could be used.
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Rank: Forum user
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As you imply correctly there is no law "permits required for ladders", indeed, there is no "law" for any permit. However, speaking as an ex enforcement officer, if the offending company have there own procedures, policies, etc. in place, which upon investigation are not implemented, then they have demonstrated a failure of control and implementation of their own systems (not a specific, law, regulation, etc. ). They could say everyone has to wear pink safety shoes, not a legal requirement, but if someone is wearing a different colour it demonstrates a failure of managment - which was probably the route cause of the more seroius accident being investigated.
The number of times I have heard (we probably all have) that can't understand why the accident happened as lots of systmes, permits, etc, in place... only to find after 5 minutes walking around numerous examples of failure to implement.
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 3 users thanked James Robinson for this useful post.
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Rank: Forum user
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As already explained a ladder permit is issued for certain ladders in certain situations. This is generally an organisational requirment based on their internal policies and standards. It is normally as a result of ladders being used incorrectly and a disproportionate of accidents and incidents arrising through incorrect use that is the driver behind a "ladder permit". What the permit does is place the responsibility of making the decision on ladder use, for example at site supervisors level, so the challenge of "is it the correct equipment being selected for the task" is met.
A ladder permit is not a legal requirmement, but is good practice, particularly when you have large scale works.
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Rank: Super forum user
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As its the ORR I can imagine that they would be very strict on ladder permits working around overhead power lines.
Andy
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1 user thanked Andrew W Walker for this useful post.
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Rank: Forum user
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I work for a few T1 Principal Contractors and most Permit the use of Ladders. The majority of their accidents come from falling from a height and around ladder use. Some have banned them unless there is a specific business need. Use of other WAH methods like MEWPS etc. In my mind it makes sense, most cases of the reportable accident have occurred from ladder use where safer methods are available. If there is a safer method, consider using that. If its specific need (confined space where a NEWP will not fit) then put a request in for a permit. Adds an additional control measure so that the Site Manager and PM are aware, also gives extra ownership on the user.
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1 user thanked gpevans for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Any permit system for use of ladder should also ensure that the user has had formal documented training in the particular ladder to be used, and that the ladder is inspected, also work at height training with regard to what the employee will do on the ladder, will he be using tools, will he get off the ladder, can he get off/on the ladder safely, will he be then working on an unprotected edge or a fragile surface etc etc
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1 user thanked JohnW for this useful post.
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