Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
SBH  
#1 Posted : 01 August 2018 11:31:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SBH

I applied to join the FRACS scheme in February 2018 and sent off the relevant documentation, and now 6 months later am told the application is being processed. has any one else applied to join this scheme and has had to wait months and is still awaiting processing

Cheers

SBH

peterL  
#2 Posted : 03 August 2018 08:39:32(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
peterL

These type of entrepeneurs don't feature on my radar, as I believe they are just their to extract your money and give you a badge - I see them as piggy backing on recent events to try and drum up business (i.e. your cash subscription) with no real aims surrounding fire safety. You pay your money you get your ticket - for what its worth, just my Friday morning rant.

peter gotch  
#3 Posted : 03 August 2018 10:26:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Would be interesting to know why you applied to an organisation I had never heard of before reading your message.

Looking at website appears to have minimal takeup, though with some apparent commercial considerations in the mix.

Ian Bell2  
#4 Posted : 03 August 2018 12:09:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

Took a quick look at their website - looks like another consultancy money making idea.

Extract from their website

For fire risk assessors – this scheme certificates the competence of individuals and companies carrying out fire risk assessments. In the UK it is a legal requirement of the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 to maintain such an assessment by individuals or companies for any building.

Not so sure the 2nd sentence is true

Reg 9

(3) Any such assessment must be reviewed by the responsible person regularly

Safety assistance18.—(1)

The responsible person must, subject to paragraphs (6) and (7), appoint one or morecompetent persons to assist him in undertaking the preventive and protective measures.

(5) A person is to be regarded as competent for the purposes of this article where he has

sufficient training and experience or knowledge and other qualities to enable him properly to assistin undertaking the preventive and protective measures.

Too many money making scams in the world of H&S accreditation

Kate  
#5 Posted : 03 August 2018 13:03:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Hm, someone who had competence in this area would recognise that that second sentence is definitely not true, as the requirement doesn't apply to buildings that happen to be self-contained, single-family houses.

Messey  
#6 Posted : 04 August 2018 06:01:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Messey

In relation to the Fire Safety Order, there is no requirement for the person undertaking the fire risk assesment to be competent. The FRA has to be suitable & sufficient, and any person appointed to carry out measures highlighted in the FRA (form fire wardens to fire alarm engineers) must be competent, but not the person writing the report.

This is no accident.  The Govt promised that the whole regulatory reform process would 'reduce the burden on industry' (of red tape). So this feature of the Order is in place to allow small businesses to download the fire safety guides and do it themselves. The sort of business may be a family run corner shop with a licence to sell alcohol. However, this sensible idea has created a loophole where any Tom Dick or Harry can buy a laptop and  business cards before calling themselves a fire safety consultant.

The worst cases are when former operational firefighters or H&S experts turn their hand to fire safety consultancy with only the guides as their source of information. They think they know the language but are far from fluent

There will be changes post Grenfell, but that is where we are now. The FRACS systems are designed to assist  businesses to avoid the cowboys and select a consultant that can do the job. Its like a voluntary Gas safe register fir the fire safety industry. It is a great idea and some FRACS systems are better organised than others.

But with the delays that the OP has highlighted, it makes you wonder if the FRACS systems, meant for regulating those in the industry - needs regulating itself!!? 

peter gotch  
#7 Posted : 04 August 2018 11:01:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Messey

Now you've got me puzzled. "Some FRACS systems"?

What other FRACS are there?

....and I appreciate that from the FRACS website that this particular FRACS was set up before Grenfell, though of course there have been other major tower block and other fires that might have influenced its formation.

Ian Bell2  
#8 Posted : 05 August 2018 00:09:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

But who are the people behid this FRACS system who consider themseleves to be demi-gods passing judgement of others ability to undertake FRAs?

I undertake FRA on oil refineries/chemical process plant - how do you gain experience doing FRAs on such plant, with out actually doing them. I know of no training courses who teach FRA for such industrial plant.

I would think most of your average fire fighters have no experience either.

rick448  
#9 Posted : 05 August 2018 13:43:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
rick448

Originally Posted by: Ian Bell2 Go to Quoted Post

But who are the people behid this FRACS system who consider themseleves to be demi-gods passing judgement of others ability to undertake FRAs?

I undertake FRA on oil refineries/chemical process plant - how do you gain experience doing FRAs on such plant, with out actually doing them. I know of no training courses who teach FRA for such industrial plant.

I would think most of your average fire fighters have no experience either.

You are 100% correct there. Very few firefighters have any knowledge around fire risk assessment requirement, in my old service, only yhose in the business safety section did any real training on these, and only then around auditting them rather than completing them. 

Ian Bell2  
#10 Posted : 05 August 2018 15:46:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

As brave and as good frontline fire fighters are - it does not follow that they make good fire risk assessors. More to fire safety than riding a fire tender and spraying water.

Too many ex firemen set themselves up are fire risk assessors, using their pereicved credibility of being ex firefighters. But are they actually any better than the rest of us?

Who are behined this FRACS system? Justify their assurance system? Assessment standard/criteria?

Or is it as we suspect some with vested interests in trying to make money?

I mean the IOSH consultants register has been a flop.

UncleFester  
#11 Posted : 06 August 2018 08:42:47(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
UncleFester

Originally Posted by: Ian Bell2 Go to Quoted Post

But who are the people behid this FRACS system who consider themseleves to be demi-gods passing judgement of others ability to undertake FRAs?

I undertake FRA on oil refineries/chemical process plant - how do you gain experience doing FRAs on such plant, with out actually doing them. I know of no training courses who teach FRA for such industrial plant.

I would think most of your average fire fighters have no experience either.

The website I've seen is owned by Warrington Certification, formerly EXOVA.

Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.