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Monopoly  
#1 Posted : 20 September 2018 08:15:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Monopoly

We have a school that has a significant number of AIB board wall and ceiling panelling in the majority of corridors and stairwells. It is checked regulalrly and incidents of damage are few and far in between. 

However, a panel was kicked "accidently" by a pupil resulting in a break. His outer garments were removed and bagged where it happended. The area was sealed and and the child taken to a shower in the school to get washed. A company came out to carry out a repair and carry out clearance air test where the board had been damaged. 

My questions are:

1) Should the company have carried out a clearance air test in the shower area given that it was AIB?

2) Given that it was AIB would it have been better to ask the company company to bring a full decontamination unit including a shower so that the pupil didnt have to go through the school causing possible contamination elsewhere?  

Monopoly  
#2 Posted : 20 September 2018 08:20:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Monopoly

Any advice would be appreciated 

Thanks

Alfasev  
#3 Posted : 20 September 2018 09:27:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Alfasev

Air clearance certificates are only required for licenced asbestos removal under CAR.

AIB is towards the lower risk on the spectrum but there should be a management report that should offer further information. The removal company are also duty bound to carry out an asbestos risk assessment.

I think there is a much bigger issue, the fact that a student was able to be exposed to asbestos by a predictable act in a school. Is the risk of exposure being inadequately managed and I would question if the asbestos is adequately protected against damage.

bod212  
#4 Posted : 21 September 2018 10:44:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bod212

Monopoly,

AIB is a licensable and notifiable asbestos containing material. It is not at the lower end of the risk spectrum (regardless of condition) so look past the advice you have already been given.

The asbestos `company` should have had a decontamination unit anyway (as with any licensable work).

You can/ could have arranged for reassurance air testing for the area of damage and any other area where asbestos was potentially spread to. Indeed the asbestos `company` should have known to encompass this in their workscope.

Answers

1) definitely

2) definitely

The info you have given poses more questions than answers...

Is there an asbestos management plan?

Who is responsible for executing this plan (i.e. the duty holder)?

Are they competent to do so?

Were the enforcing agency (HSE) at all informed at any stage either by the school or the asbestos `company`? 

Seems there is more to it?

Alfasev  
#5 Posted : 21 September 2018 11:49:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Alfasev

Weather it is “Non-licensable work”, “Notifiable non-licensed work” or “licensed work” is subject to the risk of airborne fibres.

You cannot say AIB is automatically licensable and notifiable asbestos containing material. If this was the case why are there HSE “asbestos essentials” guidance sheets saying “Non-licensed tasks”, for example:-

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/guidance/a2.pdf

bod212  
#6 Posted : 21 September 2018 13:22:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bod212

Alfasev, I point you to the second bullet point of Asbestos Essentials A2... ‘This sheet is not suitable for...where the tile has more than minor damage’. In my book minor damage would be surface scratches or light edge friability. And I am an asbestos surveyor. So given the scenario proffered by Monopoly whereby the AIB was broken and the person was showered albeit as a precaution (but out with CAR process), I would certainly stand by my previous post comments. Asbestos Essentials do have their place but should never be misinterpreted. Can’t see how any enforcing authority would be critical of anyone carrying out asbestos work who went above and beyond as it were.
pseudonym  
#7 Posted : 21 September 2018 13:35:02(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
pseudonym

But isn't that the 'problem'? Companies going 'over and above' when they don't need to? In a way doesn't this damage the message we should be sending to people? 

An example - a few years ago my parent's home was flooded by heavy rain, carpets taken up and floors needed to be dried out. 40+ year old vinyl floor tiles were removed (these had been saturated and some were floating about). Company arrived and donned full suits / respirators and enclosed the hall area in a nice plastic bubble and took the offending tiles away .. .. surely this sort of 'above and beyond' is counter productive and costing society some serious ££s

PS I do believe that asbestos can be dangerous, depending on circumstances and condition

Alfasev  
#8 Posted : 21 September 2018 14:58:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Alfasev

There is no recognised category of “licensable and notifiable asbestos”. The work is ether “Non-licensable work”, “Notifiable non-licensed work” or “Licensed work”.

My point is that the removal of AIB is not as a high risk as loose asbestos, pipe lagging and is not automatically licensed work. I agree if it is damaged the risks are increased. If in your opinion there is fibre release at the school that is fine.

However I have been on projects where “asbestos” has been used to milk unsuspecting clients to great cost. When challenged, including by another surveyor and the use of air monitoring their substantiation been week or inaccurate.

Monopoly  
#9 Posted : 04 October 2018 11:47:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Monopoly

Thanks for the answers guys.

Incident details: Pupil kicks and breaks an AIB panel in a corridor

A HSE Inspector did come out to the school a few weeks after the incident. Her recommendations and advice were as follows:

1)     She was satisfied with the action of getting the pupil to take off his outer garments at the scene, and be taken to the shower block to be showered. However she did say a clearance air test should have been carried out in the shower area. I suppose the argument here is that is it reasonable to expect a 12 year old pupil to wait at the scene (for possibly hours) for a decontamination unit to be deployed. Having said that I have spoken to a couple of asbestos removal contractors who advised that a decontamination unit should have been used to eliminate the risk of contaminating other areas.

2)      She also stated “ You should ensure those identified in your plan as having responsibility for managing asbestos receive adequate information, instruction and training for their role.” The school has been assigned a Local Authority building manager (not based at the school) who has a P402 qualification. This person, along with the Council’s Health and Safety Section provides training to school staff on asbestos awareness, how to carry out visual checks of ACMs and how to deploy the emergency procedures in the AMP. However, no one in the school has a formal qualification in asbestos management i.e. P405 .

On this what do people think ? Should someone in the school have the P405 or go on the one day asbestos management course run by the HSL or is the training provided by the Local Authority good enough if it covers all bases?

Thanks

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