Hi Eeveryone,

First post... I want to start my gin venture out of my garage, a nano distillery. 50l boiler small..... low startup costs. But i think i may have hit a snag in the form of DSEAR regulations that state you have to have atex fittings/lights/power board. That would totally blow my budget at this stage...

Does anyone have knowledge of the regulations in more detail that could advise? I would be recitifying NGS on an electric still.

Receiving 95% ethanol in 25 litre hdpe containers via courier.

Storing in a fire approved cabinet

When required decanting into a boiler, the boiler is then seaed, the liquid is  then watered down to 30% and heated. The alcohol vapour flows through a pipe and is condensed to liquid, it comes out of the still between 70% and 40% into a steel container and is watered down to 42%. It is then bottled.

Personally I see the risk of having vapour in the air as in the very low end, as the only way the vapour could escape in vapour form is if the cooling loop that condenses the liquid fails or if there is a leak - the still is continually atended and if the cooling failed it would be immediately evident and the operation stopped. negating the need for any zones to be declared. 

Personally I see the risk of having vapour in the air as in the very low end, negating the need for any zones to be declared. 

Lets be frank though,, that's not enough.

Is it sufficient to ensure sufficient ventilation either naturally or by the use of fans to ensure that the amount of vapour possible would be so small that zoning would not be required in the first place? this bolstered with fire safety storage for NGS and the presense of fire extinguishers and a spill kit? could maybe be enough.

You might want to try contacting the following?

"Any members of the trade that would like support with spirits regulation or customs issues, or would like to discuss membership, should email alan@apas1.orangehome.co.uk" https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2016/07/new-trade-body-for-craft-distillers-launched/

Best of luck with the enterprise - sounds a brilliant idea! How could I get started?

fantastic! thank you. 

first you need a passion for the business and product... visit a few distilleries. In a nutshell you buy 95% spirit, mix with botanicials and redistill it, collect the condensed vapour and bottle it.

marketing, HSE, labels, website, brand creation, distribution, etc.etc... heads exploding.

i just checked that article and it seems more related to the hmrc / customs /excise issues.. I am not at that stage yet and most interested in the DSEAR regs if anyone has any experience?

Originally Posted by: PIKEMAN

50 l of liquid could create a large amount of vapour, inside a garage you could generate a powerful confined vapour cloud explosion. Is this still boiler glass or metal? I would be astounded if you could do this in a residential garage,  What about insurance? If there is a problem what could be the consequences? I would check with your Local Authority EHO. I have dealt with stuff on this scale commercially (distillation,  sadly not Gin but flammabble and highly flammable) and would advise caution.

The still is metal. The 75l of ethanol will be sealed in the containers fit for general transport that they arrive in until such a time as they are decanted andimmediately waterred down to 30%.

I appreciate that if left open to the atmosphere at 95% for a period of time there would be a problem but that is not going to be the case.

I think it is aparent that i need to take advice from someone who has dealt with this on a small scale locally. My reason for even considering this is knowledge that it has definitely been done on a small scale by others in their loung, cellar, kitchens etc.

thanks.

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel

You say “I appreciate that if left open to the atmosphere at 95% for a period of time there would be a problem but that is not going to be the case.” Yes if everything goes according to plan it should be fine but of course it never works exactly as you might hope for. The issue for you (and your neighbours) is what would you do if you had a major spill?  How would you make the area safe? Where would the liquid go? How much will you keep at any time? I say you will receive it in 25 litre amounts from the supplier. Then what? Will you be decanting it into bottles as soon as it has been made? Where would you store your stock? How much? How would you ensure that there was no build-up of explosive vapours?

You need  a clear plan BEFORE you start work so you are not running around trying come up with a solution on the hoof.  You have to look at the worst case scenario and prepare for that.  You should talk to your insurers about that.   

I will have a plan.. I just wanted to know feasability of getting it approved with a plan and if i would need to take it up to the atex approved equipment level of things...

I will recieve 3 x 25l containers at a time. they will be stored. I will decant 12.5 litres at a time for use and water down to 30% into the metal still..

as soon as it is produced it goes ito a 100l stainless steel tank and is watered back down to 42% - the tank is sealed.

bottling may or may not take place immediately... most likely the day after.

Major spills are very unlikely.. the 25l cotainer has an opening of 4 inches in diameter so even if it fell over we are talking a few litres before it gets picked up. Spills would be taken care of with a spill kit... the spill kit would then be removed from the environment and placed in a 40litre container outside the property full of water. (42l tough tub)

All this I cna document and will be purchasing coshh flammable liquid cabinet, extinguishers, spill kit and anything else i need to...

I just need to understand if it's pie in the sy and will never get approved.. or at least some qualified opinions on the matter.

So is your 'still' also a pressure vessel? You have more than DSEAR to worry about if this is the case.

Are you buying your still, suitable for the anticipated internal pressures? If not, if you are designing/submitting a proposal for a design from scratch you might also have to consider the PED (Pressure Equipment Directive).

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel

H&S is generally not a licencing regime. If you want to do something you look at the regs and the ACoPs etc and follow them to the best of your abilities. The powers that be, only get involved if something goes wrong and then they ask questions about precautions etc.   

Similarly your insurers will be happy to take your premium until you claim against it and then they may decide that what you were doing was outside the scope of your policy and you are left in the lurch. Nobody will categorically sign anything off as being good to go before hand: nobody wants that responsibility.

Good innit?  

I want to do the right thing here in any case, as you say if i blow my house up withou takingmeasures that i can back up then I have lost my house... at best! and there is mine andmy families safety to consider.

I will go with what I suggest is correct, storage, measures to deal with a spill and what to do if there is a fire. Above that I am going to approach a business insurer and I am sure they will drive the discussion as to what i have to do to get insurance in any case.