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jdc1975@hotmail.co.uk  
#1 Posted : 15 January 2019 15:11:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
jdc1975@hotmail.co.uk

Hi,

What would happen if a customer walks into one of these salons or nail bars and then suffers severe breathing issues leading to fatality?

I walked into one salon last weekend and could hardly breathe yet there were children of different age groups and the elderly waiting. The air was so thick and foul I wonder if anyone remembers any fatality linked to such polluted indoor air ever. 

It may not be too long before such an event is recorded and yet I don't seem to recall ever reading anything associated with this industry previously. This include nail bars too. Who regulates this industry? CIEH? Local Authority? HSE? 

It may be helpful to provide some guidance to this industry to avoid an accident fatality.

Elfin Davy 09  
#2 Posted : 15 January 2019 15:34:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Elfin Davy 09

Hairdressers aren't exempt from Health and Safety legislation, and guidance (particularly so in regard to dermatitis and chemical use) is already in place and available.

chas  
#3 Posted : 15 January 2019 15:38:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chas

The HSE website has some free info on the issues you raise. They also did some research.....;;

http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrhtm/rr623.htm

chas  
#4 Posted : 15 January 2019 16:15:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chas

I should add that IOSH have also produced some guidance for salons and barbers, have a look at the IOSH books & resources section and under the 'safe start up' banner.

 

Roundtuit  
#5 Posted : 15 January 2019 16:19:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Salons and nail bars would come under the jurisdiction of the Local Authority with respect to H&S legislation

As others have stated plenty of guidance to these activities is available

Roundtuit  
#6 Posted : 15 January 2019 16:19:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Salons and nail bars would come under the jurisdiction of the Local Authority with respect to H&S legislation

As others have stated plenty of guidance to these activities is available

A Kurdziel  
#7 Posted : 15 January 2019 16:41:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

As a workplace the Health and Safety at Work Act definitely applies to nail salons and the like.  The HSE has guidance on the sector including http://www.hse.gov.uk/coshh/industry/beauty.htm and as said salons come under local authority jurisdiction rather than the HSE.

PIKEMAN  
#8 Posted : 15 January 2019 17:14:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PIKEMAN

People often think that, if they can smell a substance, then it  must be at harmful levels. This is not neccesarily the case. Substances may be detectable by our olfactory organ at very low, or high levels, which may not reflect whether or not they are acutally causing any harm. Hence, in this situation the levels MAY not have been actually harmful. This is where a COSHH assessment, done by a competent person, is neededFor instance, you cannot smell Cyanide except at near lethal levels. Hydogen Sulphide, which has similar toxicity, is however detactable at very low levels by human beings.

thanks 1 user thanked PIKEMAN for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 17/01/2019(UTC)
biker1  
#9 Posted : 15 January 2019 17:14:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

From what I understand about nail bars, I would also seriously question the safety of some of the techniques they use, and if/how these are regulated at all.

biker1  
#10 Posted : 15 January 2019 17:18:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Originally Posted by: PIKEMAN Go to Quoted Post

People often think that, if they can smell a substance, then it  must be at harmful levels. This is not neccesarily the case. Substances may be detectable by our olfactory organ at very low, or high levels, which may not reflect whether or not they are acutally causing any harm. Hence, in this situation the levels MAY not have been actually harmful. This is where a COSHH assessment, done by a competent person, is neededFor instance, you cannot smell Cyanide except at near lethal levels. Hydogen Sulphide, which has similar toxicity, is however detactable at very low levels by human beings.

Good points. In the case or Hydrogen Sulphide, olfactory fatigue kicks in, so when it reaches dangerous levels, you can no longer smell it.
A Kurdziel  
#11 Posted : 17 January 2019 09:21:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

“Common sense” tells us if something smells bad it must be bad. “Common sense” is, of course, wrong. You can’t smell asbestos or detect low oxygen levels, but both a real killers. On the other hand at times I have spent days, trying to reassure people that the smell from newly fitted carpet tiles is not a serious risk. Ask them for their risk assessment under COSHH.

firesafety101  
#12 Posted : 17 January 2019 13:15:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

I have experience of fire risk assessing a Hairdressing Salon.

My assessment included the many many different chemicals in use and stored in the premises, lots of COSHH assessments were needed and arrangements to protect people from harmful effects of the aerosol.

Any decent size fire inside a heairdressers would see small aerosols heated and exploding, flying around inside the premises due to the highly flammable contents.

Yes some are not harmful but others are.

chris.packham  
#13 Posted : 17 January 2019 13:43:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Firstly with regard to 'common sense' I rather like Prof. Brian Cox's statement in his book Human Universe that 'Common sense is completely worthless and irrelevant when investigating reality.'

With regard to hairdressing salons the most common form of occupational ill health is contact dermatitis to, of all things, to excessive contact with water (exacerbated by the presence of detergents) and the wearing of thin, occlusive gloves resulting in irritant contact dermatitis. Then there are the sensitisers such as para-phenylene diamine, a notorious sensitiser found in hair dyes, particularly the ones that are for black hair. There are numerous other chemicals in the various treatments, etc. that are known to be hazardous, but how many small hairdressing salons with either have looked at the relevant safety data sheets or having done so will have understood the contents and taken the appropriate action?

Oxford  
#14 Posted : 18 January 2019 14:26:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Oxford

You can often see, especially in nail bars, the staff member wearing  mask while they work on a customer's nails, but the customer isn't wearing one...I've not had to work in one for years but, unless things have changed, it was the adhesives used which include either PMA or PMMA which produce the sensitiser dusts

chris.packham  
#15 Posted : 18 January 2019 15:34:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

The masks they use may provide some protection against the particulates but usually are totally inefective against the solvent vapour, usually acetone, that is used in the nail polish/adhesive remover. Also the thin, single-use (??) gloves provide only a few seconds protection before the acetone will have permeated and, with the hyperhydrated skin inside the glove, will absorb this more quickly than normal. Yet it is often this type of glove that the instruction documentation indicates they should wear.

Chris

Xavier123  
#16 Posted : 18 January 2019 15:50:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

Yup.  Nail bars and salons etc. as mentioned are LA enforced.  They've been the subject of many an intervention project over the last couple of decades - dermatitis, nail drilling, ventilation, MMA and all.

HABIA are the relevant industry body and have worked with CIEH and engaged LA's to produce codes of practice for many of the activities they undertake.

https://www.habia.org/industry-codes-of-practice/

However, welcome to the new wild west. For beauty/alternative medicine therapies and their proponents are in a marketing war for the next big thing so perpetual churn over new (or reguritated old) techniques.  See microneedling, microblading, acupuncture and much more for detail.

The medical community aren't interested, many items aren't licenable, the teaching colleges can't keep up with the new products and what qualifications do exist aren't required by regulation anyway.

My personal opinion is that Government regulation of the industry must step up but its hardly on their current radar let alone agenda. LA's are pushed for officers and this stuff just isn't high risk enough to warrant even a word from the HSE in current times. Licencing regimes (where they are permitted such as in London) do assist but are not risk based and limited by out of date legislation.

I could go on.....but I'm sure that's quite enough.

thanks 1 user thanked Xavier123 for this useful post.
baya16feb on 18/01/2019(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#17 Posted : 21 January 2019 10:23:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

As general rule in this country things are permitted until there is evidence that they cause some harm and only then are rules introduced to regulate them. As result of this regulators are playing catch up with new products and services.  The alternative (which some people seem to be endorsing) is that everything that is new is banned until it is “proven” safe by the government or some similar central body. This is a long opened ended process and of course holds back innovation etc.

Robens in his report noted this was an issue and therefore he placed the onus on innovators to assess the risk from innovation in work practices themselves. He did not call it risk assessment but that was what he was talking about. Unfortunately too many people are waiting for “rules” to emerge from the HSE and other regulators rather than doing their own risk assessment.

chris.packham  
#18 Posted : 21 January 2019 11:31:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

My experience has been that management tend to regard regulations as important as they can then demonstrate ‘compliance’; much health and safety effort seems to be directed at this. Unfortunately, there are areas of health and safety (such as the one I work in) where demonstrating compliance is simply not possible. So we have to work on the basis of what constitutes ‘best practice’ given the state of knowledge at the time. Furthermore, with health, creating a regulation has several problems, one of which is chronicity. There is no way we can confidently use a short term test to demonstrate chronic (i.e. long term) health effects. With many chemicals that have been in use for some years we are still not able to predict with complete confidence what the longer term hazards might be. We can only do our best to establish the short to medium effects and then monitor on an on-going basis to identify at the earliest possible time should adverse effects start to become apparent. I am frequently having to revise the standards for chemicals that I can use to take account of new evidence as this becomes available. Having a fixed standard that did not match new evidence could itself be a hazard. Chris
thanks 1 user thanked chris.packham for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 21/01/2019(UTC)
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