Rank: Super forum user 
|
This subject has raised its head again on the front cover of the IOSH magazine. There seems to be a wide misunderstanding of such terms even among Black Belt Masters.
NO operational system can be in a state of continual change as this means it is CONSTANTLY changing each and every moment and this is thus an impossible system of management. The various management standards use the term continuing recognising that this allows for interrmittent change as the system evolves and improves over time. A continual change management system is always going to be defective in an audit if it has not changed immediately prior to and during audit
Edited by user 05 March 2019 11:32:29(UTC)
| Reason: Not specified
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
I was delivering the IOSH Managing Safety course last week and noted the same mistake, in Module 4. I had to explain to the delegates that the aim should be Continuous Improvement ie getting better every time the PLAN, DO, CHECK ,REVIEW cycle is completed not Continual Improvement which implies improvement all of the time. Surprised that IOSH makes mistakes like that!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Sounds like pedantry to me, besides the dictionary definitions I've quickly looked up refer to continual meaning 'frequent'. the closest word I can think of implying activity without a break is Constant and I've seen documents referring to constant improvement and not felt the need to query them.
In actual fact the grammer guides I've found imply the opposite stated here in that continuous implies unceasingly/without pause. Bit of a non issue in my opinion and I wouldn't query either wording.
|
 1 user thanked ttxela for this useful post.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Originally Posted by: boblewis  This subject has raised its head again on the front cover of the IOSH magazine. There seems to be a wide misunderstanding of such terms even among Black Belt Masters.
NO operational system can be in a state of continual change as this means it is CONSTANTLY changing each and every moment and this is thus an impossible system of management. The various management standards use the term continuing recognising that this allows for interrmittent change as the system evolves and improves over time. A continual change management system is always going to be defective in an audit if it has not changed immediately prior to and during audit
The various management systems standards - ISO9001, 45001, 14001 all use the term 'Continual Improvement' in clause 10.3 as they now all follow the same structure ass given by Annex SL.
ISO9000:2015 Quality Management Systems - Fundamentals and Vocabulary - gives a definition for 'Continual' as "recurring activity to enhance performance".
Interestingly it does not give a definition of continuous.
It does add a note to the definition of continual though - "The process of establishing objectives and finding opportunities for improvement is a continual process through the use of audit findings and audit conclusions, analysis of data, management reviews or other means and generally leads to corrective action or preventive action."
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user 
|
Originally Posted by: boblewis NO operational system can be in a state of continual change as this means it is CONSTANTLY changing each and every moment and this is thus an impossible system of management. The various management standards use the term continuing recognising that this allows for interrmittent change as the system evolves and improves over time. A continual change management system is always going to be defective in an audit if it has not changed immediately prior to and during audit
Oxford dictionaries disagree with you. I suggest you take it up with them:
"Both can mean roughly ‘without interruption’ ... However, continuous is much more prominent in this sense. ... Continual, on the other hand, typically means ‘happening frequently, with intervals between’"
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/usage/continual-or-continuous
Edited by user 06 March 2019 08:51:02(UTC)
| Reason: formatting link
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
My comparison was between continual and continuing NOT continuous. So the dictionary is only a half help. I have issue with new standards as they seem to have overlooked the nuances of difference in the english language during translation and editing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.