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badacid  
#1 Posted : 28 March 2019 16:54:33(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
badacid

Does anyone know much about the law/regulations behind purchasing second hand machinery e.g what paperwork/information should be provided with it?

At my place of work a machine has been purchased which was manufactured pre 1995, so does not need to be CE marked - however there is no certificate of conformity, operating instructions or any other paperwork with it. I believe this machinery was purchased from another manufacturing company (not from a machine supplier/specialist).

If anyone has any experience with purchasing/selling machinery and can let me know what is normal practice it would be much appreciated. 

 

Ian Bell2  
#2 Posted : 28 March 2019 18:04:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

George_Young  
#3 Posted : 28 March 2019 19:35:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
George_Young

while the HSE website link posted above should tell you everything require

I read this the other day about a second-hand machine, which was missing guards causing an employee to lose their life.

https://www.ioshmagazine.com/article/skip-firm-s-md-cleared-of-manslaughter-after-worker-s-death

badacid  
#4 Posted : 29 March 2019 09:50:20(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
badacid

I had a read of that document and some of the links that stem from it - It seems quite straightforward if the product is CE marked, however anything really old that isn't CE marked the guidance is quite sketchy. 

I could only find this small paragraph:

"Older equipment, including equipment that did not require CE marking, should be supplied in a safe condition and in some cases this may require additions to what was originally provided. The required standard for safety (ie what is reasonably practicable) can be guided by standards relevant to the product.  For example, old non-CE marked machinery (pre 1995) should, where reasonably practicable, meet the requirements of PD 5304:2005 Guidance on the safe use of machinery which contains the text of the last British Standard on the safety of machinery which would have applied to such pre 1995 machinery."

Paragraph below - the equipment is so old the instructions are not even available online anywhere. 

"In addition you must also provide adequate information about using the equipment, normally this will be a copy of the original equipment's instructions in English."

Technical file:

"As manufacturer you, or if from outside the EU your appointed authorised representative, must compile a technical file for each product you place on the market (or one for a series of identical products) as required by the relevant European product safety Directive. This is required so that as manufacturer you can demonstrate with appropriately detailed documentation, calculations and drawings, how your product complies with all relevant Directives, and so is safe during all phases of its life."

The company we purchased the machine from is not the manufacturer. ​​​​​​​

The information on creating a declaration of conformity also only seems to have guidance where CE marked products are in question.   E.g: "A Declaration of Conformity is not a quality certificate, nor a guarantee for safety. However, when properly drawn up along with CE marking on the product, conformity of the product with the Directive(s) quoted on the Declaration of Conformity may be presumed by suppliers in the distribution chain and by the end customer, provided there are no obvious or known defects. Additionally, market surveillance authorities, must presume that CE marked products, accompanied by a Declaration of Conformity comply with the provisions of the Directive(s) mentioned, unless they have evidence to the contrary (for example by examining or testing the product)."

The conformity assessment guidance note states the following:

"When do I have to undertake conformity assessment?

Before placing new products on the market, or bringing them into service, for the first time, the Responsible Person (the manufacturer or his authorise representative) must undertake the one of the conformity assessment procedures that apply to the product. This may include second-hand products"new" to the market such as imports from outside Europe of non-CE marked products, or products so substantially refurbished as to be considered new."

None of this applies to the machine that has been purchased - it isnt new, being used for the first time or being imported from outside of the EU. 

We have nothing from the company we purchased it from, so would it be adequate for us to carry out PUWER assessment (ensuring it complies with everything other than "is the machine CE marked"), draught our own operating instructions and safe system of work (The operation of the machine is as simple as sliding in the product and pressing a pedal to punch), and as the machine is a power press have the thorough check done by our 3rd party inspector? 

Dave5705  
#5 Posted : 29 March 2019 11:25:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Dave5705

Maybe the 3rd party inspector would be a good place to start? There are a few companies who specialise on bringing older equipment up to current specs, he may know one. If it were woodworking machinery I would point you in the right direction, but this one I'm not sure about.

regards, Dave

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