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mike52  
#1 Posted : 11 June 2019 09:20:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
mike52

I am interested in any opinions on this scenario? I carry my GTN spray all the timemails. However there is an employee who also has a heart condition but leaves her spray either in her locker or in her car. She started to have chest painso so I offered her my spray to ease the symtoms. We both have the same type and dosage. The first aider told me I could not do that and her own spray was fetched which took several minutes. My question is do you think know I was right or wrong to offer her my spay initially? Mike
A Kurdziel  
#2 Posted : 11 June 2019 09:40:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

GTN (Glyceryl trinitrate) is an alternative name for nitroglycerine (the well-known explosive), used to avoid alarming patients.  Generally it is not a good idea to share medicines especially prescription ones as these have been prescribed for a particular person to deal with their condition taking into account various health factors. GTN is quite a powerful drug and could in the wrong dose,  cause problems.  

CptBeaky  
#3 Posted : 11 June 2019 10:10:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CptBeaky

I doubt you will find any H&S professional who would back you openly. You should never give prescribed drugs to anybody other than the named patient.

However, if I saw someone having an asthma attack and I had my inhaler on me; I would give it to them without thinking twice.

SBH  
#4 Posted : 11 June 2019 10:18:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SBH

 I carry such a spay but never use it, and when I looked at it the spray expired 18 months earlier.

Tell her to carry the spray - why leave it in the car - you never know when it may be needed. Whats the point of having it if its left in the car.

SBH

SBH

thanks 1 user thanked SBH for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 12/06/2019(UTC)
achrn  
#5 Posted : 11 June 2019 11:58:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Originally Posted by: mike52 Go to Quoted Post
She started to have chest painso so I offered her my spray to ease the symtoms. We both have the same type and dosage. The first aider told me I could not do that and her own spray was fetched which took several minutes.

If you know that it is exactly the same prescription (i.e. have previously checked, and neither of you have changed prescription in the intervening period), I would say what you did was illegal (since you were distributing a prescription drug - I'm assuming you're not qualified and authorised to fill prescriptions), but was the right thing to do in the circumstances.

However the actually right thing to do is tell your colleague to carry their own drugs.

thanks 1 user thanked achrn for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 12/06/2019(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#6 Posted : 11 June 2019 14:01:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Isn't this the prescribing scenario often discussed around FAAW.

"I have a headache"... "here take these" - prescribing

versus

"I have a headache"... "I have some paracetemol in my desk if you want them" - self medication

or

"I have a headache does anybody have any aspirin?" - self diagnosis

Having been administered GTN in A&E I would concur this is not a medicine for sharing

thanks 3 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
webstar on 11/06/2019(UTC), A Kurdziel on 12/06/2019(UTC), SJP on 01/07/2019(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#7 Posted : 12 June 2019 08:45:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

“However there is an employee who also has a heart condition but leaves her spray either in her locker or in her car.”  As several people have pointed out the issue is not whether you should be sharing prescription medicine with someone but why she refuses to carry it with her. Does it spoil the line of her clothes? Is she embarrassed to carry it or does she just expect other people do things for her? This is the sort of thing I’d expect people to carry with them like an inhaler, an EpiPen or insulin.

I once worked with a senior manager who refused to put their own eye drops in; instead they expected the OH adviser (who was a qualified nurse) to do it for them because”That’s what nurses do”   

mike52  
#8 Posted : 12 June 2019 09:11:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
mike52

thank you all for your replies. They do .are the situation clearer. as for why she does not carry her spray, it is because she hadoesn't not had an email enter in almost a year and felt she did not need it (no medicall ad ice sought on that). the spray is now arrived all the time. Thanks again mike
achrn  
#9 Posted : 12 June 2019 12:08:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

Isn't this the prescribing scenario often discussed around FAAW.

"I have a headache"... "here take these" - prescribing

That's not prescribing in the sense of distributing a prescription drug.  It's not illegal to give someone non-prescription drugs you have purchased.  It is illegal to distribute prescription-only drugs unless you have the appropriate authorisations.

Roundtuit  
#10 Posted : 12 June 2019 12:36:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Medicines Act 1968 Part III section 58.b. "no person shall administer (otherwise than to himself) any such medical product unless he is an appropriate medical practitioner or a person acting in accordance with the directions of an appropriate practitioner"

Is this your reference? I am struggling with the term "distribute" as this implies some form of transaction which comes under a definition of the offence to supply under The Missuse of Drugs Act 1971

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 12/06/2019(UTC), CptBeaky on 12/06/2019(UTC)
Todai  
#11 Posted : 29 June 2019 08:56:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Todai

This is double-edged, as a professional we can not state you can share medication.  However, if I was out on the street, had the items you described and the person also took said same items and was having issues, I think you'd be fine. Falling under 'good samaritans criteria' 

Equally, some should consider, if you knew this information and someone died... how would you feel and how would you defend preventing someone using the same medication to the deceased individuals family.  Food for thought. 

Roundtuit  
#12 Posted : 29 June 2019 09:51:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Where is this utopian society where everyone wanders round fully concerned and knowledgable about everyone else (ref also http://forum.iosh.co.uk/posts/t128581-Aspirin)?

In reality:

1) MOST people walk/drive on by with some deliberately altering path to avoid becoming involved

2) Having not become involved you will likely be unaware of the outcome

3) Having not become involved it is unlikely you would be included in any investigation in to cause of death

4) Not being included in the investigation/coroners court you would be unlikely to see the family

You can take solace that some half dozen lives have been improved through presumed organ donation

Todai  
#13 Posted : 01 July 2019 07:45:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Todai

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

Where is this utopian society where everyone wanders round fully concerned and knowledgable about everyone else (ref also http://forum.iosh.co.uk/posts/t128581-Aspirin)?

In reality:

1) MOST people walk/drive on by with some deliberately altering path to avoid becoming involved

2) Having not become involved you will likely be unaware of the outcome

3) Having not become involved it is unlikely you would be included in any investigation in to cause of death

4) Not being included in the investigation/coroners court you would be unlikely to see the family

You can take solace that some half dozen lives have been improved through presumed organ donation

your comments are correctly partly, this instance references someone aware of a condition and is able to help. I do not believe that if 'MOST' as you said knew that their intervention could potentially save a life would, in fact, leave the said person and try not to become involved. Humans, for the most part, have genuine care for them and others around them especially people with a slight medical influence/training. 

thanks 3 users thanked Todai for this useful post.
CptBeaky on 01/07/2019(UTC), jonc on 01/07/2019(UTC), stevedm on 01/07/2019(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#14 Posted : 01 July 2019 20:35:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Be involved in a collision on a motorway - of the thousands who see, and pass, how many stop?

stevedm  
#15 Posted : 02 July 2019 07:37:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

Be involved in a collision on a motorway - of the thousands who see, and pass, how many stop?

Agreed...some of us have no choice we are obliged to help...losing registration also helps to focus the mind :)....when I look at other countries I work in - germany and france in particular yes there are some elements of thier population that do this ...but generally it seems to be an english thing...so don't moan about it change it...and encourage others to do the same.  I have been pushed to one side by a very keen first aider, I applauded her for her drive and enthusiasm to help...as one supermarket chain has coined a phrase...every little helps...just comforting someone can mean the world to them when they feel vulnerable, hurt and alone until help arrives.

CptBeaky  
#16 Posted : 02 July 2019 07:50:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CptBeaky

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

Be involved in a collision on a motorway - of the thousands who see, and pass, how many stop?

Off topic, but this is very disingenuous. We are talking about very different things here. Stopping to help on a motorway

  1. Puts you and other road users in danger
  2. Most people don't have the skills to help, as opposed to giving a spray/aspirin
  3. Potentially involves a person seeing a lot of trauma (blood, dead bodies etc.)
  4. Isn't immediately obvious how to help
  5. You know emergency services will arrive very quickly.

This discussion relates to whether it is ok to treat a person with (what you assume are) obvious symptoms, when you have (what you assume is) an obvious solution? That is a completely different scenario. I, along with many other 1st aiders, have stopped to help casualties outside of the work environment. We don't do this because we are 'special' or against the norm. It is human nature to want to assist if you have the tools/knowledge to do so.

thanks 1 user thanked CptBeaky for this useful post.
jwk on 02/07/2019(UTC)
jwk  
#17 Posted : 02 July 2019 13:43:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

Be involved in a collision on a motorway - of the thousands who see, and pass, how many stop?

This is about confidence: at my last place everybody who had done basic first aid (in-house two-week course for volunteers) would stop at the site of a motorway collision unless it was obvious they weren't needed (i.e paramedics in attendance),

John

Roundtuit  
#18 Posted : 02 July 2019 13:46:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: CptBeaky Go to Quoted Post
This discussion relates to whether it is ok to treat a person with (what you assume are) obvious symptoms, when you have (what you assume is) an obvious solution? 

Getting beyond dangerous assumptions, and back to the question, "is it OK for one colleague to share their prescription medicine with another colleague at work?"

stevedm  
#19 Posted : 02 July 2019 14:16:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

Think we covered it...NO.

thanks 1 user thanked stevedm for this useful post.
CptBeaky on 03/07/2019(UTC)
achrn  
#20 Posted : 02 July 2019 14:19:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: CptBeaky Go to Quoted Post
This discussion relates to whether it is ok to treat a person with (what you assume are) obvious symptoms, when you have (what you assume is) an obvious solution? 

Getting beyond dangerous assumptions, and back to the question, "is it OK for one colleague to share their prescription medicine with another colleague at work?"

I think that has already been answered - it's illegal, but it might be the right thing to do in some limited circumstances.  It would be better to ensure the requirement does not arise.

thanks 1 user thanked achrn for this useful post.
CptBeaky on 03/07/2019(UTC)
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