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North19319  
#1 Posted : 23 June 2011 09:59:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
North19319

The company I work for is considering supplying paracaetomol in vending machines as we have had people say they are unable to take other forms of pain killers. I have reviewed legislation surrounding this and have a query on how many tablets a pack can contain/how many we can sell in total at any one time. The The Medicines (sale or supply) (miscellaneous provisions) Regulations, 1980 state a pack size of tablets to be no more that 25 but a Medical regulatory authority has informed me the same piece of legislation states 16 tables.

Does any one know how many tablets may we sell in total in one vending machine and what piece of legislation states the quantity as I need to log a reference to it for auditing purposes.
stevie40  
#2 Posted : 23 June 2011 11:29:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevie40

Retail packs of paracetemol are limited to 16 tablets or caplets. Larger quantities are POM (prescription only medication) iirc.

I know supermarkets limit you to one pack at a time (per adult at the checkout) but I'm not sure what legislation governs this.

How would you stop people purchasing multiple packets?

I do seem to recall seeing vending machines in Hilton Hotels that include painkillers along with toothpaste, brushes etc. Might be worth taking a look at one of those.
Guru  
#3 Posted : 23 June 2011 11:49:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Guru

Paracetamol products in the workplace info..

http://www.pharmweb.net/...armwebpicaworkplace.html
jay  
#4 Posted : 23 June 2011 13:08:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

Refer to:-

MHRA website on topic "availability, prescribing, selling and supplying of medicines" pertaining to Vending Machines:-

http://www.mhra.gov.uk/H...endingmachines/index.htm

The Pharmaweb article is from "Safety Management" February 2004; p52 , the Brirish Safety Council's magazine. Not much has changed since then!
North19319  
#5 Posted : 23 June 2011 14:06:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
North19319

Thank you all for the responses, I've looked at all the websites and MHRA informaition already. MHRA are the ones telling me its 16 where I see the legislation states 25.
Hally  
#6 Posted : 23 June 2011 15:52:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hally

stevie40 wrote:
Retail packs of paracetemol are limited to 16 tablets or caplets. Larger quantities are POM (prescription only medication) iirc.

I know supermarkets limit you to one pack at a time (per adult at the checkout) but I'm not sure what legislation governs this.

How would you stop people purchasing multiple packets?

I do seem to recall seeing vending machines in Hilton Hotels that include painkillers along with toothpaste, brushes etc. Might be worth taking a look at one of those.


You sure on that limit of one pack at a checkout?

I've been buying two packs at a time whenever i'm running low of paracaetomol for as long as the limits came in. I'm sure i would have been pulled up at least once when buying in those quantities over the years (especially as one was the pharmacist in a well known pharmacy chain as i was getting a prescription...)
kdrum  
#7 Posted : 23 June 2011 16:10:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
kdrum

Agree with Hally on this as due to a dodgy knee I buy 2 packs of paracetemol or Ibrufen at a time from one of the 2 well know 24/7 supermarkets.

We did look at including in our vending machine in my last place of work but I read some guidance that stipulated the controller of the vending machine had to sell in packs of 16 and ensure no individual could purchase any more than 100. How you would do the second part to restrict I don't know
Safety Smurf  
#8 Posted : 23 June 2011 16:29:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

kdrum wrote:
Agree with Hally on this as due to a dodgy knee I buy 2 packs of paracetemol or Ibrufen at a time from one of the 2 well know 24/7 supermarkets.

We did look at including in our vending machine in my last place of work but I read some guidance that stipulated the controller of the vending machine had to sell in packs of 16 and ensure no individual could purchase any more than 100. How you would do the second part to restrict I don't know



From a practical perspective that would mean only 6 packets in the machine at any one time (I will put my hand up, I had to use a calculator) how often are these machines replenished? How much demand is there expected to be for this product?
Guru  
#9 Posted : 23 June 2011 19:18:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Guru

amazing how hard it is to actually find the piece of legislation that places the restriction of paracetomol. I found lots of web sites saying that regulations came into force restricting the sale of paracetamol (and aspirin) tablets to 16 tablets per person per purchase from retail outlets and 32 tablets per sale from pharmacies, but never find the named regulation for the UK.

Interestingly enough I did find Irelands regulations which came into force in 2001, and has the same restrictions.

http://www.irishstatuteb....ie/2001/en/si/0150.html
Guru  
#10 Posted : 23 June 2011 19:31:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Guru

http://www.legislation.g...7/2045/regulation/2/made

Amendment of regulation 8 of the Medicines (Sale or Supply) (Miscellaneous Provisions) Regulations 1980


2 (b) (iii) for subparagraph (d) there is substituted—.
“(d)in the case of capsules—.
(i)where they do not contain aspirin or paracetamol, not more than 25 capsules,.
(ii)where they contain aspirin, paracetamol or both of those substances, not more than 16 capsules.
Robinson22450  
#11 Posted : 23 June 2011 21:31:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Robinson22450

Yes you can buy maximum of 2 packets of paracetamol as one transaction (1 packet is 16 tablets) or 1 packet of paracetemol and another paracetamol product.

Most larger have a block on their EPOS till systems when more than 2 packets or a combination of paracetamol based products are scanned stopping them from being purchased.
Zyggy  
#12 Posted : 24 June 2011 08:47:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zyggy

I had a chat with my sister last night who is a Senior Pharmacist, & Robinson22450's response is spot on.

Interestingly, she said that as a result of the changes there are now fewer "spontaneous" overdose bids involving paracetamol, but of course this sadly does nothing to prevent the "planned" ones.
John T Allen  
#13 Posted : 24 June 2011 12:44:57(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

I'd think very carefully about putting such vending machines in your workplace. I had experience of these at a place I worked temporarily at some years ago, and they were a problem to monitor. The company that stocked them were not too careful, and I found once they mixed up Paracetamol and Ibuprofen, so people didn't get dispensed with what they expected, raising the possibility of dosing mistakes.
If people supply their own painkillers, that's their responsibility; once the employer supplies the means for them to obtain them, a whole new can of worms is opened.
thanks 2 users thanked Guest for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 09/07/2019(UTC), SJP on 09/07/2019(UTC)
bryanjd  
#14 Posted : 24 June 2011 14:02:11(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
bryanjd

A possible solution would be to only vend a maximum dose (for example two tablets) at a time, this would certainly be below any legal maximums and would mean your employees would not need to carry around the surplus of the 16 or 32 tablet packets for which they would have no use.

The smaller the packet size the more packets that would able to be stored within the machine, therefore the likelihood of the machine being empty when an employee was in need would be reduced.

I suspect it would be easier to allow the employee to go out an aquire the tablets from a shop, if they need them, rather than bog your company down with extra red tape headaches.
Hally  
#15 Posted : 24 June 2011 16:23:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hally

quote=Zyggy]I had a chat with my sister last night who is a Senior Pharmacist, & Robinson22450's response is spot on.

Interestingly, she said that as a result of the changes there are now fewer "spontaneous" overdose bids involving paracetamol, but of course this sadly does nothing to prevent the "planned" ones.


That's the thing isn't it. Two packets for ease of not having to go back in or elsewhere.

Tomorrow i'm in the delights of The St John Precinct in Liverpool city centre (need to go to a shop in there) and it's an awful place. Apart from that i can off the top of my head before leaving said small shopping centre visit 5 stores (might be more) that i can purchase said tablets from, so there's 160 in a matter of minutes and i'd guess without even thinking of smaller shops that may sell them, that within approx 5 minutes i could visit another 10 stores so 480 tablets. Not sure how many i'd need to take after today but i'm pretty sure that would leave me some left over...

Doubt we'd ever go down the route of vending. I usually have at least a packet of paracaetomol and ibuprofen in my locked drawer anyway as i suffer on and off with what the quacks think is arthritis.
Graham Bullough  
#16 Posted : 24 June 2011 17:38:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

There is a Paracetamol Information Centre website which includes a page with advice about UK workplaces and vending machines at http://www.pharmweb.net/...armwebpicaworkplace.html

It's worth clicking on 'home' to access and have a look at some of the other pages on the website. The "Paracetamol in overdose" page suggests that liver damage can be caused by 15 gms (30 tablets), although hospitals tend to assume liver damage can occur with a single overdose of 24 standard tablets.

The website also mentions that, unlike deaths from overdoses of most medicines, a fatal overdose of paracetamol has what is known as a relatively long "time course to death". This echoes what a friend of mine experienced as a junior doctor in a hospital with a teenager who had taken an overdose. The patient felt fine for quite a while before (as the medical staff knew would happen) deteriorating and dying within several days from liver failure. All very harrowing for everybody concerned.

Another aspect is that various over the counter brand name medicines contain paracetamol. However, if users do not check the packet information (which increasingly seem to include the phrase "contains paracetamol") or accompanying leaflets, they may be unaware of the paracetamol content and unwittingly overdose. Therefore, it's important for people of all ages to be encouraged to check what they're taking, not to take different medicines at the same time (unless advised by a doctor) and to heed the time intervals for repeat doses. As for children who are too young to understand such things, the usual measures should be used to prevent them having access to tablets (sweets in their perception) and other medicines.

Wizard  
#17 Posted : 25 June 2011 04:58:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Wizard

North19319,

Does it really matter?

Should you be concerned err on the safe side sell in packs of 8 and you will be well below legislative recommendations. However, it doesnt stop you buying 200 packets of 8 if you wish. I have had similar discussions with Chemist outlets.



Regards

Wizard
A Kurdziel  
#18 Posted : 09 July 2019 08:40:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I have reported this to the moderators.

Who are these marketing people crashing our forum and hijacking old  threads? Can we report them somewhere?

Distracting and time wasting

George_Young  
#19 Posted : 09 July 2019 09:23:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
George_Young

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

I have reported this to the moderators.

Who are these marketing people crashing our forum and hijacking old  threads? Can we report them somewhere?

Distracting and time wasting

This thread was created before my time with IOSH, but has made some interesting reading for me. so not all bad :)

Roundtuit  
#20 Posted : 09 July 2019 09:25:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Still waiting the recent post to Roller Shutter Doors from 2015 being taken down as blatant advertising

Gerry Knowles  
#21 Posted : 11 July 2019 07:38:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Gerry Knowles

I would ask the question why do you need to provide a vending machine which sells Paracetamol at all.  I would bet that if you looked through peoples lockers/desks/bags you would find the vast majority already carry them. I always do.  The legislation restricts the amount of Paracetamol products that can be sold at any one time by having a vending machine you cannot control the number bought at any one time.  I would not do this and tell staff to bring ther own.

thanks 1 user thanked Gerry Knowles for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 11/07/2019(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#22 Posted : 11 July 2019 08:16:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I agree with Gerry. Let’s stick this thread back in the ground with a stake through it and move on.

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