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Milkyken  
#1 Posted : 11 July 2019 22:50:33(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Milkyken

Hi,

Bit of a query around CDM and duties.

If a property management company is paid to as it say manage properties by owners of flats within the building and the Property management company appoint contractors to undertake construction works where does the client duty lie? i'd think the property management company but not 100% sure.

In some properties owners may live in the flats they own so are domestic owners yet some rent the properties out. they all pay a fee in to the property management company who then undertake work when required such as fixing ridge tiles or clearing gutters etc etc

Some property owners have comitees who decide sometimes on the works and tell the property management company what needs doing with the money at some of the properties.

Additionally when it comes to fire risk assessments how far would this also go for the properties? communal areas for the property management company yet internally the owners responsibilty?

Thanks in advance

RayRapp  
#2 Posted : 12 July 2019 08:22:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Hi, I will try to answer your questions...in the scenario of the property management company engaging contractors to carry out work I believe the property management company become the client under CDM. The principle being whoever pays the money is the client.

With flat owners engaging contractors they are domestic clients under CDM and the duties transfer to the contractor. However, this may not be the case where the flat owners have a committee such as a Freehold Management Company, which could be viewed as a commercial enterprise and therefore would be the client under CDM.

FRAs only apply to the communal areas of flats. Individual flats are not part of the FRA process with the exception of flat front doors because they are normally part of the fire compartmentation.   

Milkyken  
#3 Posted : 19 July 2019 12:40:34(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Milkyken

Many Thanks Ray

Another kind of issue but along the save lines is the management company sort the building insurance and if there is a leak on say the 3rd floor that runs to ground floor and causes damage in 3 private flats below obviously CDM applies to these. Works. Subsequently then it’s probably the save scenario as above I presume . Trouble then is as an example on the ground floor there is beam of block and beam flooring but with a polystyrene void filler. No H&S file and no indication of if the filler flame retardant etc.

No initial FRA for the building either. At this point has the property manager got responsibility to to do a FRA for the entire building?
RayRapp  
#4 Posted : 20 July 2019 07:25:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Ken, I will answer the FRA question first. In the scenario you have described I believe the property management company would be deemed to be the 'responsible person' for ensuring a FRA has been completed. I don't know the age of the property but the RRFSO has been in force since 2005, so there is no excuse for not having a FRA for the whole building.

That said, I doubt the average FRA would drill down so far as to investigate whether the polystrene void filler is fire retardent or not. Any person engaging a FRA assessor would have to request this is investigated. Personally, I would be more interested in the integrity of fire doors, compartmentalsiation, smoke detectors, escape routes, etc.   

With regards to the leak, I would have thought this was an insurance matter. Depending on what damage has been caused is whether CDM applies - not a significant matter in the grand scheme of things.  

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