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ianjones  
#1 Posted : 30 September 2019 11:12:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ianjones

We are currently supplying our staff in an engineering workshop and assembly area with Safety glasses via a well known opticians voucher scheme> i should stress this is for protection during engineering works i.e Safety glasses while changing parts - there is NO DSE element to this

However the cost of this if you have bi focals or varifocals is over £100 each (we have 300 staff)

we would prefer to move to a part payment scheme where we give a voucher for the eyetest and basic safety glasses (£50 approx) and then anything else is staf payment.

What do you have in place please? What are your comments please

If anyone who could send me a procedure that would be useful - cheers

Edited by user 30 September 2019 13:23:36(UTC)  | Reason: more information

CptBeaky  
#2 Posted : 30 September 2019 11:18:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

We cover the cost of the eyetest and the cost of the basic saftey glasses. Anything more and the employee has to contribute the rest. This is in line with our safety boot policy (we pay up to £30, anything more and the employee has to contribute).

Obviously, if it can be shown that the employee must have a more expensive option (due to an underlying health condition etc.) we then pay the full amount. For example we have an employee with a foot condition meaning that they need specialist footwear.

Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 30 September 2019 12:30:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

If your policy mandates safety eyewear at all times you need to accept some employees may need two pairs one for walking about and the other for fine work/reading - however from personal and painful experience sods law will come to the fore with accidents occuring during switching between separate pairs. Or you could invest in eliminating the need for eye wear in the first place. I will still contend a difference in prescription between reading/detail work and general vision even if there is NO DSE prescription. I am one of those of advancing years who need bifocals for the shop floor so that as well as safely walking around without tripping I can read printed work instructions and labels (as well as having my non-safety DSE and driving glasses). I will concur that a certain providers staff seem to constantly try to upsell industrial prescriptions - at my last visit I was offered reactive coating, designer frame and their latest varifocal design unfortunately for them my voucher covered basic bi-focal.

Edited by user 30 September 2019 22:14:25(UTC)  | Reason: You may still need more than one prescription

Roundtuit  
#4 Posted : 30 September 2019 12:30:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

If your policy mandates safety eyewear at all times you need to accept some employees may need two pairs one for walking about and the other for fine work/reading - however from personal and painful experience sods law will come to the fore with accidents occuring during switching between separate pairs. Or you could invest in eliminating the need for eye wear in the first place. I will still contend a difference in prescription between reading/detail work and general vision even if there is NO DSE prescription. I am one of those of advancing years who need bifocals for the shop floor so that as well as safely walking around without tripping I can read printed work instructions and labels (as well as having my non-safety DSE and driving glasses). I will concur that a certain providers staff seem to constantly try to upsell industrial prescriptions - at my last visit I was offered reactive coating, designer frame and their latest varifocal design unfortunately for them my voucher covered basic bi-focal.

Edited by user 30 September 2019 22:14:25(UTC)  | Reason: You may still need more than one prescription

paul.skyrme  
#5 Posted : 30 September 2019 18:14:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

What about those persons who need perhaps 3 or 4 prescriptions for work unless they have vari-focals?
toe  
#6 Posted : 30 September 2019 19:41:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

If this is not a DSE issue, why would the employer pay for an eye test?

Roundtuit  
#7 Posted : 30 September 2019 19:59:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Most of the time eye tests are "free" on purchase of a prescription - you only pay if you want to take it away

Where the employer insists upon eye protection for a prescription wearer it makes sense to confirm before glasses are manufactured otherwise the employer has provided unsatisfactory PPE.

Whilst the DSE regulations need a re-write at least they state employers have a duty for employees eye health.

Roundtuit  
#8 Posted : 30 September 2019 19:59:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Most of the time eye tests are "free" on purchase of a prescription - you only pay if you want to take it away

Where the employer insists upon eye protection for a prescription wearer it makes sense to confirm before glasses are manufactured otherwise the employer has provided unsatisfactory PPE.

Whilst the DSE regulations need a re-write at least they state employers have a duty for employees eye health.

chris42  
#9 Posted : 01 October 2019 08:48:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Isn’t it simple?

You need your engineers to be able to see what they are doing (forget legislation for a moment, think quality), so if they have poor eyesight then they need glasses. Now as an individual myself who needs glasses, I buy them for reading, and they so happen to be ok for me to use the computer and I rarely need safety glasses and when I do, normal ones are fine. So my company does not need to pay anything for my reading glasses.

However, your engineers who may need more than 1 prescription, need safety glasses. It would make sense to me that if providing safety glasses, they should be able to see properly through them, when either at a work station or when walking around (assuming they still need to use safety glasses). If they happen to need two prescriptions then you either buy two pairs of safety glasses for them which will be a pain to use, or you buy varifocals. They should not be paying for safety equipment (now think of legislation), which is different from normal glasses they use outside of work.

So if they need safety glasses for both close up work and while walking around, then you should pay for both in full, or provide varifocal safety glasses in full.

Chris

thanks 3 users thanked chris42 for this useful post.
lorna on 01/10/2019(UTC), Hsquared14 on 01/10/2019(UTC), SJP on 01/10/2019(UTC)
Hsquared14  
#10 Posted : 01 October 2019 12:51:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hsquared14

Chris has put it very well, I wear varifocals and if I had single vision lenses I either wouldn't be able to do my work or alternatively I wouldn't be able to walk around safely.  Needing bifocal or varifocal lenses isn't a lifestyle or fashion choice it is a necessity so that the person can function with good safe vision at all times.  If you want to protect people's eyes then you have to provide them with the appropriate eye protection at zero cost or take engineering steps to ensure that they don't need eye protection in the first place.  This is not something to do on the cheap because the consequences of getting wrong are devastating.

thanks 1 user thanked Hsquared14 for this useful post.
SJP on 01/10/2019(UTC)
CptBeaky  
#11 Posted : 02 October 2019 08:25:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

Are people aware that "over spec" safety glasses are a thing? Glasses that you can wear over you regular glasses.

As an aside from my post. Our glasses are only worn during specific tasks, therefore we don't need second pairs for walking around. 

HSSnail  
#12 Posted : 02 October 2019 09:03:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

As a spectacle wearer I would commend any company that provides prescription safety specs. I wear over specs from time to time and they are a flipping nuisance, but one that I can put up with for the short time I need them (sounds like CptBeaky is in a similar position)– don’t want to think about what they would be like to wear all day!

But once you have taken the decision that prescription safety glasses are the norm, then obviously they have to be the right prescription for the person or they are not suitable – which is one of the requirements of the PPE regs, and it’s the company duty to pay for them.

chris42  
#13 Posted : 02 October 2019 09:40:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Yes, you can get over glasses, but I didn’t think they had any impact rating at all (happy to be wrong on this). We used to call them visitor glasses, ie ok for walking down a walkway but not up close and personal with anything. However, all the over glasses I have ever seen scratch very easily and tend not to last long.

There are also visors, which in theory could work. However, it was not until recently I actually used one (while doing something at home), they just steamed up in seconds while outside on a warm day! they are also static magnets and in the end I actually decided I was safer without it. then either just wearing normal glasses, or if I felt the need for some impact protection and able to put up with slightly blurry vision from regular safety specs or goggles. My welding helmet allows for my prescription glasses to be inside (still can’t see to weld in a straight line, but I understand this is common when your eyesight deteriorates – there are some tricks to help apparently, but not tried yet – this is at home not work)

I suspect that two different prescription safety glasses from that supplier is not much difference to the price you quote for varifocals.

I don’t think you can apply the same logic as you use for safety shoes to glasses. If someone wants a branded pair of boots for style sake, then yes, they should pay the difference. Varifocals is not really a style choice; designer frames could be, but again that is different.

Would you get away with what you are proposing? probably, as people don’t fully understand their rights. However would you want them telling the HSE that they have to pay for their PPE ? if you get an unlucky visit.

Chris

Roundtuit  
#14 Posted : 02 October 2019 09:47:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Overspecs IMHO are like Overshoes and intended for visitors for whom it would be impracticable to provide fully suitable provision.

Unfortunately given their low unit cost tight budgets see these as a suitable provision to eye protection requirements often without employee evaluation.

Roundtuit  
#15 Posted : 02 October 2019 09:47:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Overspecs IMHO are like Overshoes and intended for visitors for whom it would be impracticable to provide fully suitable provision.

Unfortunately given their low unit cost tight budgets see these as a suitable provision to eye protection requirements often without employee evaluation.

CptBeaky  
#16 Posted : 02 October 2019 10:33:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

Originally Posted by: chris42 Go to Quoted Post

Yes, you can get over glasses, but I didn’t think they had any impact rating at all (happy to be wrong on this).

Ours have an impact rating of "F" (Can withstand impact of small objects (6 mm, 0.86 g ball) travelling up to 45 m/sec). As with others, these are normally handed out to visitors, or very short duration work that is not part of regular duties. I agree they aren't comfortable for long periods.

thanks 1 user thanked CptBeaky for this useful post.
chris42 on 02/10/2019(UTC)
achrn  
#17 Posted : 02 October 2019 10:55:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Originally Posted by: CptBeaky Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: chris42 Go to Quoted Post

Yes, you can get over glasses, but I didn’t think they had any impact rating at all (happy to be wrong on this).

Ours have an impact rating of "F" (Can withstand impact of small objects (6 mm, 0.86 g ball) travelling up to 45 m/sec). As with others, these are normally handed out to visitors, or very short duration work that is not part of regular duties. I agree they aren't comfortable for long periods.

Our overglasses are Bolle Squale, and are 1FT, which is the same as the general use safety glasses we issue to non-spectacle-wearers.  They aren't as sleak though - the overglasses look like something found in a school chemistry lab, but the general ones let you kid yourself you look like you're a spy / assassin / 'operator' (or would if they were darker).

We issue overglasses to spectacle wearers who need safety glasses less than a few hours per week on average.  Anyone needing safety glasses for longer duration gets prescription safety glasses.  BUT there's a pretty big but - I haven't been able to find prescription glasses that meet 'T' spec, so actually even those people that have prescription safety glasses should be wearing the overglasses when they are on winter night shifts etc. (I doubt they do, though).

I'd really like to find a source of prescription 1FT glasses, even if only single vision prescription, but I don't think they exist.

thanks 2 users thanked achrn for this useful post.
CptBeaky on 02/10/2019(UTC), chris42 on 02/10/2019(UTC)
John J  
#18 Posted : 16 October 2019 14:34:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John J

Originally Posted by: ianjones Go to Quoted Post

We are currently supplying our staff in an engineering workshop and assembly area with Safety glasses via a well known opticians voucher scheme> i should stress this is for protection during engineering works i.e Safety glasses while changing parts - there is NO DSE element to this

However the cost of this if you have bi focals or varifocals is over £100 each (we have 300 staff)

we would prefer to move to a part payment scheme where we give a voucher for the eyetest and basic safety glasses (£50 approx) and then anything else is staf payment.

What do you have in place please? What are your comments please

If anyone who could send me a procedure that would be useful - cheers

Part payment on anything where you are claiming VAT back is a minefield.

If you claim the VAT for the full purchase you are profiting from the employee. Trying to claim part payment on only the £50 portion is very difficult

Acorns  
#19 Posted : 17 October 2019 17:31:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Acorns

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post
Or you could invest in eliminating the need for eye wear in the first place. I will still contend a difference in prescription between reading/detail work and general vision even if there is NO DSE prescription. I am one of those of advancing years who need bifocals for the shop floor so that as well as safely walking around without tripping I can read printed work instructions and labels (as well as having my non-safety DSE and driving glasses).
😂 it’s as if you were walking in my shoes😂. I needed glasses to read the digits on a measuring wheel but others for when I was looking up and around towards fast moving traffic. I could cope without the long distance without glasses but not flicking them on/off so not the reading part - the safer option was a varifocal which accommodates my driving needs. Like do much of ppe- it’s very personal
hilary  
#20 Posted : 18 October 2019 07:06:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

In the far off days before I actually needed bi/varifocals, I had bifocals for safety glasses because I needed reading glasses and with those and overspecs on I couldn't see distance, but without the reading part I couldn't see my forms and risk assessment to mark down the hazards.  The bottom was reading, the top was plain.

You shouldn't need to provide an eye test for employees who already wear glasses and not all 300 staff are going to need glasses, some may require single lens and some, of course, varifocal.

You may find this comes out at less than you think but you shouldn't make employees pay for PPE if that PPE is mandated and there is no option but to have varifocals.

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