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Baron  
#1 Posted : 05 November 2019 17:11:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Baron

Hi all, I have 2 questions to ask which I hope you can provide me with your views.

An operative carrying out a winching exercise on a search & rescue helicopter sustained a minor injury (not specified) when in the air on the winch.

The winch man was checked post incident by local A&E as a precaution. A minor muscle tear was identified. No follow-up required.  The person returned to work next day. It was decided to place the person on light duties for a week to give a them a rest from the more demanding side of the job.

Is the HSE the regulatory authority here and would you class this as a RIDDOR due to the restriction in place. Let’s say the restriction lasts more than 7 days, but the duties are still routine and valid for the position.

Is the fact that the person is incapacitated from an element of the role justification to report this as a RIDDOR.

Thoughts?

My view this is not a RIDDOR and the regulatory body is the CAA, not the HSE.

RayRapp  
#2 Posted : 05 November 2019 19:00:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Hi Baron

See HSE defintion below.

RIDDOR only requires you to report accidents if they happen ‘out of or in connection with work’. The fact that there is an accident at work premises does not, in itself, mean that the accident is work-related – the work activity itself must contribute to the accident. An accident is ‘work-related’ if any of the following played a significant role:

  • the way the work was carried out
  • any machinery, plant, substances or equipment used for the work or
  • the condition of the site or premises where the accident happened

In other words, there must be some fault with the way the work was carried out or the equipment used which also caused or contributed to the injury. If that is not the case, then it is not a RIDDOR.

thanks 1 user thanked RayRapp for this useful post.
Baron on 05/11/2019(UTC)
Baron  
#3 Posted : 05 November 2019 19:16:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Baron

Originally Posted by: RayRapp Go to Quoted Post
Hi Baron See HSE defintion below. RIDDOR only requires you to report accidents if they happen ‘out of or in connection with work’. The fact that there is an accident at work premises does not, in itself, mean that the accident is work-related – the work activity itself must contribute to the accident. An accident is ‘work-related’ if any of the following played a significant role:
    <li>the way the work was carried out</li><li>any machinery, plant, substances or equipment used for the work or</li><li>the condition of the site or premises where the accident happened </li>
In other words, there must be some fault with the way the work was carried out or the equipment usedwhich alsocaused or contributed to the injury. If that is not the case, then it is not a RIDDOR.
Thanks Ray. The challenge is that there was no fault as such. No failure of equipment or systems. The injury occurred at sea while on the end of a winch connected to a helicopter. A vessel during a swell rose quicker than anticipated leading to an adjustment in height which led to a minor muscle tear. Does in your opinion the HSE have primacy here? The injury is minor in nature. We decided to err on the side of caution and restrict duties for a week. Riddor is being questioned. I don’t mind reporting but from a accurate point of view I’m interested. Thanks Barry
Ian Bell2  
#4 Posted : 06 November 2019 11:01:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

Not RIDDOR. Aircraft operations/flying operations are not covered under either HASAWA and hence RIDDOR.

Flying is governed by CAA / CAP legislation. If you feel the injury of such severity that it should be reported, as the injury took place while the helicopter was airborne you should report to the Air Accident Invesigation Branch (AAIB) via their reporting methods.

Assume this was a civillian helicopter.

fairlieg  
#5 Posted : 06 November 2019 12:55:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
fairlieg

Originally Posted by: Ian Bell2 Go to Quoted Post

Not RIDDOR. Aircraft operations/flying operations are not covered under either HASAWA and hence RIDDOR.

Flying is governed by CAA / CAP legislation. If you feel the injury of such severity that it should be reported, as the injury took place while the helicopter was airborne you should report to the Air Accident Invesigation Branch (AAIB) via their reporting methods.

Assume this was a civillian helicopter.

Not sure if that is strictly the case as you would need to look at the definitions in the regulations.  For example, reports are not required under RIDDOR where this would duplicate other similar reporting requirements so it’s down to interpretation of the regulations.

The Civil Aviation (Investigation of Air Accidents and Incidents) Regulations 1996 gives the following definitions:

“accident” means an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight until such time as all such persons have disembarked, in which—

“(a)a person suffers a fatal or serious injury as a result of—

being in or upon the aircraft,

direct contact with any part of the aircraft, including parts which have become detached from the aircraft, or

direct exposure to jet blast,

except when the injuries are from natural causes, self-inflicted or inflicted by other persons, or when the injuries are to stowaways hiding outside the areas normally available to the passengers and crew, or

(b)the aircraft sustains damage or structural failure which—

adversely affects the structural strength, performance or flight characteristics of the aircraft, and

would normally require major repair or replacement of the affected component,

except for engine failure or damage, when the damage is limited to the engine, its cowlings or accessories; or for damage limited to propellers, wing tips, antennas, tyres, brakes, fairings, small dents or puncture holes in the aircraft skin; or

(c)the aircraft is missing or is completely inaccessible;”

 

And

“serious injury” means an injury which is sustained by a person in an accident and which—

(a)requires hospitalisation for more than 48 hours, commencing within seven days from the date the injury was received;

(b)results in a fracture of any bone (except simple fractures of fingers, toes, or nose);

(c)involves lacerations which cause severe haemorrhage, nerve, muscle or tendon damage;

(d)involves injury to any internal organ;

(e)involves second or third degree burns, or any burns affecting more than 5 per cent of the body surface; or

(f)involves verified exposure to infectious substances or harmful radiation;

and “seriously injured” shall be construed accordingly;

If considering RIDDOR look at the definition of “routine work”

“routine work” means work which a person might reasonably be expected to do, either under that person’s contract of employment, or, if there is no such contract, in the normal course of that person’s work;

Ian Bell2  
#6 Posted : 06 November 2019 13:06:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

RIDDOR only covers land transport.

Xavier123  
#7 Posted : 07 November 2019 11:27:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

Injuries may be accidental but are not, in themselves, the accident.

Without an actual accident (unintended event etc.), RIDDOR application falls away.

stevedm  
#8 Posted : 07 November 2019 13:03:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

different angle...if this was in connection with an offshore safety or emergency activity related to it then the item is RIDDOR reportable....

Ian Bell2  
#9 Posted : 07 November 2019 13:46:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

Baron is correct in his/her 1st post (if this is reported), would be of interest to the CAA/AAIB.

It is clearly stated the injured person, although not clear if it is one of the helicopter crew members i.e. the 'winch weight' or the recovered person who was injured while hanging on the helicopter winch line.

I would say the injured person was 'flying' as he was attached to the helicopter, when injured by the normal motion of the boat/ship as it bobbed up and down on the sea. Therefore the incident comes under CAA legislation.

Neither is any clue given whether this incident was part of offshore operations in terms of oil/gas. It is just a SAR operation, from the information given. It could be a recovery from a pleasure craft etc.

Mark-W  
#10 Posted : 25 November 2019 14:21:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Mark-W

Reading the original post, it says that the IP received medical attention but was deemed fit to work and carry on. They then go on to say that they erred on the side of caution and placed the IP on restricted duties.

So because they have over ridden medical advice from a professional in my mind means nothing. The way I see it, medical help sought and received, message from them, crack on = no RIDDOR in my mind.

Or am I looking at it to simplisticaly. 

Ian Bell2  
#11 Posted : 02 December 2019 11:16:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

Civil Aviation Authority document CAP 642 Airside Safety Management is the document to read and relevance to RIDDOR reporting in particular paragraphs 1.16-17, para 1.29, para 2.210-212

In summary the HSE in agreement with the CAA do not enforce occupational health and safety 'airside' of an airfield i.e. on the aircraft ramp/movement area. The CAA are responsbile for all aircraft flying/safety matters.

RIDDOR would only be reported for injury to, say, an aircraft technician working on an aircraft in a hangar etc i.e. the aircraft is not operational/fit to fly.

As previously stated this discussion started with a helicopter airborne and winching a person -hence a CAA matter

Ressler  
#12 Posted : 06 December 2019 00:12:41(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Ressler

RIDDOR would only be reported for injury to, say, an aircraft technician working on an aircraft in a hangar etc i.e. the aircraft is not operational/fit to fly.10.0.0.0.1 192.168.1.254 hotmail.com 

i agree

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