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thunderchild  
#1 Posted : 06 December 2019 10:18:19(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
thunderchild

I've been asked to write a SSoW for cherry picker but as I have no idea how to operate one I actually can't do it, however I'm wondering of we actually need one?

Our risk assessment states that all CP drivers are authorised and IPAF trained and only they can operate the CP so surly the IPAF training is our safe system of work???

I'm also trying to get away from having paperwork for paperwork sake.

Thoughts?????

thunderchild  
#2 Posted : 06 December 2019 10:32:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
thunderchild

Just to clarify, this is just for the operation of the CP not the task that is then undertaken using it.

hilary  
#3 Posted : 06 December 2019 10:36:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

There are other considerations like cordoning off the area to make sure no one walks underneath or too close to the cherry picker if it is likely to move in a circular motion.  Making sure the ground that it is standing on is suitable and sufficient because, of course, cherry pickers will be counterbalanced and you will need outriggers, competence and certification of drivers/operators/banksmen, etc

Yes, these should all be considerations on the Permit, but if you have a SSOW and you are doing this a lot, then the permit can simply refer to the SSOW making your life a lot less complex.

thunderchild  
#4 Posted : 06 December 2019 11:16:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
thunderchild

Hilary, thanks for the response.

The requirements for the corden, outriggers etc covered in the actual task SSoW and RA. This is just litrally an SSoW for the operation of the cherry picker.

RayRapp  
#5 Posted : 06 December 2019 11:27:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

In that case I suggest your SSoW is the trained and competent MEWP operator.

JohnW  
#6 Posted : 06 December 2019 12:38:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

Operating a cherry picker is a lifting operation and before switching on and pressing buttons you need a lifting plan which needs a risk assessment that ensures the ground is suitable, traffic control is managed, you don’t hit anything, you don’t drop anything from height, harness worn correctly. Also know the date of the last LOLER certification. And yes the correct use of the controls in the cage and also controls on the ground in an emergency. Also a rescue plan if operator gets crushed against a pipe or a ceiling. So your trained operator can add ‘operation of buttons and switches’ to your risk assessment.

Edited by user 06 December 2019 12:42:33(UTC)  | Reason: typo

A Kurdziel  
#7 Posted : 06 December 2019 13:57:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

The Safe System of Work is not simply a method statement telling you how to operate a piece of kit. It how YOU as an employer carry out a task in such a way  as to ensure the Health and Safety etc of everybody who might be affected by it. As far as operating it goes, “following manufacturers’ instructions” is usually good enough but that is you to decide.

  • Who operates it- they need to be competent, you have to decide what that means
  • As Hilary says you need to create rules about how you use it and where eg do you have power lines on your site,  is there risk from high winds(what are high winds in your case)  How do you ensure that people in the area are safe? How far do you need to segregate it from other people
  • What do you do if there is an emergency? Is there a built-in mechanism to lower the platform automatically or do you have to do something else?
  • What is the maintenance regime, taking into account LOLER requirements  but all of the other stuff as well

Yes you need a SSOW and sorry to say it needs to be documented. What causes frustration in H&S is when there is unnecessary documentation (eg copying out chunks of legislation and standards when you can just reference these and duplication of effort; you already have a manual so you don’t need to reinvent the wheel etc

thanks 2 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
johnc on 07/12/2019(UTC), SJP on 11/12/2019(UTC)
biker1  
#8 Posted : 06 December 2019 14:08:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

I think there are two topics going on here. Firstly, how do you operate a cherry picker - it sounds like writing this part would be outside your area of competence, so I suggest a reference to an operator's manual, or perhaps the supplier or trainers can help on this part. Secondly, how do you operate it safely in your environment, which is where the other points made by Hilary would come in. Don't forget about the risk of contact with overhead power lines, which may or may not be applicable to the job being done. It also depends on what jobs you are doing with the CP, are they different enough to need separate safe systems of work? Dare I say it - risk assessment?

RayRapp  
#9 Posted : 06 December 2019 15:28:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

I definitely think there is some confusion here. If I was writing a SSoW for a cherry picker I would include all the periphials i.e. ovehead power lines, ground conditions, barriers, traine and competent operator, etc. However the original post asked about the operation of the MEWP, apart from a lift plan to adhere to which is probably generic the operation of the MEWP is down to the operator.

Roundtuit  
#10 Posted : 06 December 2019 16:31:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

This sounds like trying to write a system of work for driving a car without the car actually going on the road or moving in any direction.

Who has asked for this (i.e. do they know what they are talking about or just stringing together phrases they have heard)?

What is the documents intended purpose (training, insurance, pre-qualification questionnaire..)?

Just off to the stores... the boss has asked for a tin of Tartan paint, a long stand, a bag of sparks for the grinder and a foolserrand.

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
thunderchild on 10/12/2019(UTC), SJP on 11/12/2019(UTC), thunderchild on 10/12/2019(UTC), SJP on 11/12/2019(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#11 Posted : 06 December 2019 16:31:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

This sounds like trying to write a system of work for driving a car without the car actually going on the road or moving in any direction.

Who has asked for this (i.e. do they know what they are talking about or just stringing together phrases they have heard)?

What is the documents intended purpose (training, insurance, pre-qualification questionnaire..)?

Just off to the stores... the boss has asked for a tin of Tartan paint, a long stand, a bag of sparks for the grinder and a foolserrand.

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
thunderchild on 10/12/2019(UTC), SJP on 11/12/2019(UTC), thunderchild on 10/12/2019(UTC), SJP on 11/12/2019(UTC)
arnoldisnumerouno  
#12 Posted : 06 December 2019 21:55:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
arnoldisnumerouno

There is some good advice above, however, I’m not entirely sure a lift plan is a standard requirement for using a cherrypicker. I have never been asked for a lift plan during the 7 years with my current company and we operate around 30 MEWPs on a daily basis. Hillary makes a valid point about outriggers. Be careful with this point. There are many types of cherrypicker in the wider world of MEWPs. Some have outriggers, most don’t. This also creates issues with training. IPAF are the most commonly presented competence cards you will come across - 1B category will be for cherrypickers with outriggers, 3B without. The important part of this is understanding that use of the machine and the task - if I was in your position I would seek advice before authoring any documentation
biker1  
#13 Posted : 09 December 2019 12:52:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

Just off to the stores... the boss has asked for a tin of Tartan paint, a long stand, a bag of sparks for the grinder and a foolserrand.

Don't forget the sky hook.
Kim Hedges  
#14 Posted : 10 December 2019 01:15:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

My MEWP card has just expired and I really need to get a new one, but the number 1 item in the operators requirements is to read the attached operating manual.  That has what you'd expect. 

So I would suggest contacting a MEWP supplier or hire company that has this equiment, to let you copy some manuals.  Go in person, I'm sure they'd be more than happy to help you.  They may even have a policy that you could adapt - why reinvent the wheel?

O'Donnell54548  
#15 Posted : 10 December 2019 08:08:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
O'Donnell54548

"Do you need a SSOW for the use of a cherry picker?",  the answer is yes. There you go, that's my good deed for the day done, no further discussion required. Everyone out there "have a good day" :)   

thanks 1 user thanked O'Donnell54548 for this useful post.
CptBeaky on 10/12/2019(UTC)
thunderchild  
#16 Posted : 10 December 2019 14:51:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
thunderchild

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

This sounds like trying to write a system of work for driving a car without the car actually going on the road or moving in any direction.

Who has asked for this (i.e. do they know what they are talking about or just stringing together phrases they have heard)?

What is the documents intended purpose (training, insurance, pre-qualification questionnaire..)?

Just off to the stores... the boss has asked for a tin of Tartan paint, a long stand, a bag of sparks for the grinder and a foolserrand.

If I'm honest its a butt covering exercise. The cherry picker is not used daily its maybe once or twice a week for internal high leval maintenance (light, camreas cables etc.) by pspecifically trained people. No out riggers, flat level ground. All of which is covered in the RA. 

This is an interanal document only, will be only read by the trained operators of the cherry picker to tell them how to safetly operate the cherry picker.......which they have already been trained to do.

For me it seems a bit like paperwork for paperwork sake, it will be just a copy of the manual.....

A Kurdziel  
#17 Posted : 10 December 2019 15:49:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Don’t copy the manual! You still have it, so refer to it and get the users to read it. What you need is documentation to confirm how you will use it. 

Go through your documents and remove the following headings- safe System of work, risk assessment, standard operating procedure etc Put them together and remove any obvious duplication. Call the new document “Instructions on the use of a cherry picker indoors to fit lights” or something similar.

Find something else to look at like “How the best people to write work instruction are the equipment users not Health and Safety”

Drink Gin

chris42  
#18 Posted : 10 December 2019 16:36:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

“How the best people to write work instruction are the equipment users not Health and Safety”

Your right

But

The reason they are equipment operators is sometimes for a good reason, ie they are not good with paperwork. Perhaps the best people to write the document is the H&S person with input from the operators, equipment instructions, guidance etc, not necessarily the operators themselves. This I think is all dependant on who the person is, if they are someone in a position of authority then perhaps, they are the best person. However, if their ability does not stretch much beyond press the green / red buttons then perhaps not. Of course there is a big grey area in the middle.

Chris

thanks 3 users thanked chris42 for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 11/12/2019(UTC), hilary on 11/12/2019(UTC), SJP on 11/12/2019(UTC)
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