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RichardPerry1066  
#1 Posted : 11 December 2019 15:06:54(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
RichardPerry1066

A contact has been asked by a lift maintenance company to provide (ie buy) temporary shaft protection whilst the company is working on the lifts. They have specified the type of protection - ie they are not satisfied with normal multi purpose plastic barriers.

I have said that I'm surprised that a lift maintenance company does not provide their own specialist barriers for short termwork. It's their workplace surely they should be taking whatever steps are needed to protect members of the public (and their own staff) from the risk? If I was the maintenance company I would not be happy relying on whatever the customer provided for me for such a safety critical application. It feels like a tree surgeon coming on site and expecting me to provide them with specialist access eqipment and chain saw PPE.

Is this common? Any lift people out there able to shed some light on this?

RayRapp  
#2 Posted : 11 December 2019 15:22:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

I agree, it is unusual for a specialist lift manintenance contractor not to provide their own equipment. I presume the 'plastic barriers' you refer to are chapter 8 barriers and not particularly robust. I would ask the contractor to provide their own barriers or the work will go to someone else who can provide their own equipment.

thanks 2 users thanked RayRapp for this useful post.
RichardPerry1066 on 11/12/2019(UTC), SJP on 12/12/2019(UTC)
RichardPerry1066  
#3 Posted : 11 December 2019 15:41:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
RichardPerry1066

Ray - what is "Chapter 8"?- note my superb professionalism admitting to the limits of my competence!

RichardPerry1066  
#4 Posted : 11 December 2019 15:50:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
RichardPerry1066

Thanks for that Ray - what is "Chapter 8"?- note my superb professionalism admitting to the limits of my competence!

Elfin Davy 09  
#5 Posted : 11 December 2019 15:51:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Elfin Davy 09

Richard

"Chapter 8" refers to the relevant section in The Traffic Signs Manual (for Road Works and Temporary Situations) where this type of barrier is specified for use.

thanks 1 user thanked Elfin Davy 09 for this useful post.
RayRapp on 11/12/2019(UTC)
RayRapp  
#6 Posted : 11 December 2019 19:09:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Richard, following up on Elfin's post - Chapter 8 barriers are normally red and white barriers you see protecting road works. They are designed to identify a work area as opposed to protecting people from falling through them. Hence they are not robust enough for a lift shaft.

paul.skyrme  
#7 Posted : 11 December 2019 19:36:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

Since the HSE withdrew their guidance on working near, and having open landings, this guidance has been transferred to the Lift & Escalator Industry Association, HSE worked with them on the guidance, and IIRC in that it is deemed that it is down to the duty holder in the premises to supply suitable protection and provide to the lift contractor, then down to the contractor to use it appropriately.

thanks 1 user thanked paul.skyrme for this useful post.
firesafety101 on 22/04/2022(UTC)
RayRapp  
#8 Posted : 12 December 2019 12:43:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Originally Posted by: paul.skyrme Go to Quoted Post

Since the HSE withdrew their guidance on working near, and having open landings, this guidance has been transferred to the Lift & Escalator Industry Association, HSE worked with them on the guidance, and IIRC in that it is deemed that it is down to the duty holder in the premises to supply suitable protection and provide to the lift contractor, then down to the contractor to use it appropriately.

Seems bizarre to me, but if that is the case then I would charge the contractor for suppling the correct barrier protection unless they provided their own. 

Tiltovich  
#9 Posted : 20 April 2022 14:41:22(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Tiltovich

No, this is not normal! Good service with qualified employees should bring everything and install it themselves for the safety of others.

firesafety101  
#10 Posted : 22 April 2022 10:45:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Originally Posted by: paul.skyrme Go to Quoted Post

Since the HSE withdrew their guidance on working near, and having open landings, this guidance has been transferred to the Lift & Escalator Industry Association, HSE worked with them on the guidance, and IIRC in that it is deemed that it is down to the duty holder in the premises to supply suitable protection and provide to the lift contractor, then down to the contractor to use it appropriately.

Unbelievable Paul.  This must mean the duty holder for the premises has to go on training courses and prove competence enough to be able to pay for and provide suitable fall protection.

Victor Meldrew must be turning in his grave.

Pirellipete  
#11 Posted : 26 April 2022 09:15:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Pirellipete

But is it down to the lift contractor ?/

They are working in YOUR premises and you have a duty to provide a Safe Place to Work,

After all, as you need to ensure the safety of your own people, and others affected by the works, (IE stop them falling down the lift shaft), why shouldn't you provide the protection ?

It's also possible a lift contractor has quoted for providing the protection but your purchasing/procurement people chose not to accept the lift contractors cost of providing it.

antbruce001  
#12 Posted : 26 April 2022 10:07:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
antbruce001

I agree at first sight, requiring the building 'owner' to provide the barriers looks wrong. But if you think about it, who is the barrier there to protect? It's there to protect 'others', not the engineers. The 'others' are likley to be the owners own staff, or their tenants. As such, it makes sense for the 'owner' to make sure the protection is suitable, not the engineer.  The guidance does state the engineer should ensure that it is used, so they are responsible for actually putting it in place and they shouldn't undertake the work unless it is available. 

chris42  
#13 Posted : 26 April 2022 10:45:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Not sure I agree. The protection is only there while the maintenance / service work is being undertaken. Therefore, the rest of the time the company has to store maintain inspect etc. Surly the engineers would take what they need from job to job, that way they can take what they need for that job. It would seem daft that an engineer goes to four sites in a day so 4 sets of barriers etc have to be bought by four companies, opposed to one set taken with them, with one lot of inspection and servicing. Good if you are in the lift protection barrier business.

Of course, the guidance has been written by the industry body, so let’s see who should pay for the protection, their members or the customer and have them pay for and administrate the service / inspection and purchase and they decide what exactly will be needed.

So, do people have their own scaffolding in case a contractor needs to come and do some work on the outside of the building? Personally, I find it hard to get those long poles under my desk.

Very cynical mood today sorry.

Chris

thanks 1 user thanked chris42 for this useful post.
Kate on 26/04/2022(UTC)
Easterly  
#14 Posted : 27 April 2022 09:42:58(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Easterly

No, this is not normal! Good service with qualified employees should bring everything and install it themselves for the safety of others. We also sometimes had such workers, so we immediately sent them home, because security in the office is above all! As a result, one day, we decided to hire people to repair the elevator from this service -- hinchong.com. I haven't seen this for a long time in 7 years of working in the office. Clean, neat, highly qualified specialists arrived, who did everything as needed in just a few hours. I was shocked by how wrong we were when choosing elevator maintenance services.

Easterly  
#15 Posted : 27 April 2022 09:47:11(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Easterly

No, this is not normal! Good service with qualified employees should bring everything and install it themselves for the safety of others. We also sometimes had such workers, so we immediately sent them home, because security in the office is above all! As a result, one day, we decided to hire people to repair the elevator from this service -- hinchong.com. I haven't seen this for a long time in 7 years of working in the office. Clean, neat, highly qualified specialists arrived, who did everything as needed in just a few hours. I was shocked by how wrong we were when choosing elevator maintenance services.

Roundtuit  
#16 Posted : 27 April 2022 13:18:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

This post ran its course back in 2019

It was resurrected April 2022 by Tiltovich and now we have another user under the name Easterly promoting a service provider who seems to have no user profile.

Roundtuit  
#17 Posted : 27 April 2022 13:18:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

This post ran its course back in 2019

It was resurrected April 2022 by Tiltovich and now we have another user under the name Easterly promoting a service provider who seems to have no user profile.

peter gotch  
#18 Posted : 27 April 2022 16:29:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Roundtuit - it might be pure coincidence but "Tiltovich" and "Easterly" (the latter strangely with no user profile) have posted in the same italic font.

The thread does appear to have looked at what happens in the UK, but Easterly appears to be supporting a lift maintenance company in Singapore, where custom and practice might be very different.

However, as you point out the thread appeared to have run its course before being exhumed by a first time poster.

P

 

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