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SPR  
#1 Posted : 12 February 2020 08:48:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SPR

We have engineers who work in bakeries in the UK and I have been asked by a customer what measures we have in place to consider whether we could be at risk of introducing this into their stores and possible contribute to the spread.

Has anyone else been asked this question and if so how did you reply?

Edited by user 12 February 2020 08:50:10(UTC)  | Reason: Spelling

Yossarian  
#2 Posted : 12 February 2020 10:50:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Yossarian

There is official Guidance available at this link: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/wuhan-novel-coronavirus-information-for-the-public.

However as with all these things, the advice is pretty generic and does not cover the specific scenario you identify. You will need to do some work to apply the guidance to the process you describe, especially if any of your engineers have travelled from Wuhan or Hubai in the last fortnight.

My gut feel assuming engineers have not travelled from the above is that a combination of standard food hygiene practices with increased employee awareness and reporting of symptoms will probably suffice at this stage, but this is subject to change based on the Chief Medical Officers latest advice.

Edited by user 12 February 2020 10:54:34(UTC)  | Reason: clarity of response

A Kurdziel  
#3 Posted : 12 February 2020 13:48:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Coronavirus like other cold and flu type viruses is spread by mainly by the person to person route: an infected person sneezes and someone standing near to them, no more than 2 metres (an educated guess) breathes in the aerosol containing the virus and becomes infected. If the virus fails on a surface like a door knob it might remain viable for some time (hours rather than days) and if someone during that time touches the door know and then transfers the virus on their fingers to their face they may become infected.

It’s a virus so it cannot contaminate food like a bacterium can. It does not multiple outside of its host cell. It cannot by the transmitted by oral route. Heating will kill it. Disinfectants will kill it. Hand washing will kill it.

Because it is a new virus there are a lot of unknowns including exactly how long it can remain viable outside of the human host on surfaces, for example. Other questions include: how long does someone remain infectious after exposure, how easy is it to actually develop a full blown illness after exposure and just how easy is person to person transmission?

To be honest I would expect the bakery business to come up with their own protocols for dealing with and to impose them on visitors including your engineers. Your engineers cannot be expected to be infection control experts.

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
CptBeaky on 12/02/2020(UTC)
jmaclaughlin  
#4 Posted : 12 February 2020 14:31:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
jmaclaughlin

The virus must be propagating in other ways as well, in the case of Steve Walsh, if I understand the situation correctly, he unknowingly contracted the virus in Singapore, but did not display any symptoms (no coughing/sneezing)  travelled to a French ski resort and infected several more, took an Easyjet flight to the UK, known to have infected 3 adults & 1 child, returned to Brighton, started to display symptoms and was put into an isolation ward.

So it would seem that just being in the same room as a carrier is enough to put you at risk.

That been said, am not sure the CoVid-2019 is any more of a hazard than seasonal  flu.

craigroberts76  
#5 Posted : 12 February 2020 14:37:19(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
craigroberts76

which begs the question why werent the airline staff and bus drivers in isolation? so many holes in the basic control measures at the start.  In america they are self validating themselves, i.e. no i havent been to china, and I feel fine... thats it ! look at chicken pox, you're contagious before you have any outward symptoms.

A Kurdziel  
#6 Posted : 12 February 2020 14:43:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

“So it would seem that just being in the same room as a carrier is enough to put you at risk.” If that is the case it must be some mechanism of spread that is unknown to science, in which case all bets are off and we are all doomed!

Realistically the only know mechanism is coughing and sneezing with possible transfer to the face from surfaces as a secondary route.

Realistically it seems that it is overall less dangerous than season flu which in a typical winter season kills 500 000 people globally. SARS which is also a coronavirus was more dangerous to individuals which meant that people who had it, took straight to bed and in effect self-quarantined, while this virus being less nasty in terms of symptoms allows people to go about their normal business and so spread the disease faster and further.

A Kurdziel  
#7 Posted : 12 February 2020 15:14:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Chickenpox has an airborne infection route, via coughs and sneezes which means that people infected with it can pass on the infection before the distinctive blisters form. These blisters contain a high titre of the virus and are extremely infectious. It takes 10 to 12 days for the disease to fully develop after initial infection.

craigroberts76  
#8 Posted : 12 February 2020 15:27:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
craigroberts76

exactly, so if Corno is also airbourn, I dont see how 14 day isolation will help as they could have already passed it onto 100's before they had symptoms.  I run a martial arts club and we're looking into this now, we're introducing anti-bac as of tomorrow to help prevent it and a general " if you are unwell with cough or cold you will not be able to train".

biker1  
#9 Posted : 12 February 2020 18:15:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

From what I can understand, the reasons for the outbreak in China fall into four areas:

1. Wuhan is a big city, similar in size to London

2. It is heavily populated

3. It is thought that the virus initially transferred from animals, and there is a lot of trading in live animals in the city

4. Due to atmospheric pollution, the air quality in Wuhan is poor, and it is debatable as to how much of the illness and death was attributable to this and how much to the virus, or at least a combination of these factors. When people are crammed together in close proximity, and the air quality is poor, the scene is set for infection spread. Aircraft cabins are notorious for this, as so much of the air is re-circulated. If someone on board has a common infectious condition like colds or flu, it is likely that other occupants will be infected.

I would be asking two questions of people entering the country. Have you been in a country where the virus has established itself, and how did you travel here?

Messey  
#10 Posted : 12 February 2020 18:36:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Messey

Lets all be careful here as I would take a guess that none of us are pandemic experts and repeating what the Daily Mail says is not really accurate information.

We have staff working across China and have been working closely with the FCO to ensure their safety. So much is still unknown and much of what has been posted here on this forum is speculation and NOT fact.  We meet daily to discuss the latest situation and are making plans to evacuate more/all staff. 

In the US on Jan 30th, during a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing, Senator Tom Cotton urges additional steps to protect American citizens from the coronavirus. He sits on two Senate committes - one related to the military and the other to intelligence. So perhaps is pretty informed. 

Listen to that sobering speech here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT3txmbWxb4

thanks 1 user thanked Messey for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 13/02/2020(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#11 Posted : 13 February 2020 09:37:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

“exactly, so if new coronavirus is also airborne, I don’t see how 14 day isolation will help as they could have already passed it onto 100's before they had symptoms” which is why as well isolating suspected cases, PHE try to identify all of their contacts.

I have just been looking at the Statutory Notifications of Infectious Diseases report from PHE (cos I am a virologist by trade). The new coronavirus isn’t a notifiable disease (yet) but it is interesting to look at other diseases. For example there have been 28 cases   of meningitis in the last month. This is potentially a very nasty disease (especially the bacterial form), with a high fatality rate (higher than coronavirus) and it is spread by coughs and sneezes etc.  Don’t hear much mention of this in the news.

 

thanks 3 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
RVThompson on 13/02/2020(UTC), CptBeaky on 13/02/2020(UTC), nic168 on 17/02/2020(UTC)
Hsquared14  
#12 Posted : 13 February 2020 12:53:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hsquared14

I caught the tail end of a news interview with someone from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine - if I understood what he said then the the virus can become airborne from normal tidal breathing which means you only have to be in the same room as someone to be at risk.  Official guidance suggests avoiding contact with people, no handshaking, no kissing, hugging etc with people who may be infected.  Where other forms of contact are concerned the current advice is normal hygiene measures you would take for any other viral illness, such as sanitising telephones, door handles, door push plates, flat surfaces that could be contaminated by coughs and sneezes.  I don't think there is any need to panic yet, for most people it seems to be a minor illness but it seems too soon for this virus for anyone to have any definitive advice so I would just stick with normal hygiene precautions you would use in any food preparation location as there is nothing more specific out there at the moment

biker1  
#13 Posted : 13 February 2020 16:33:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

I think there is a risk of some mass hysteria about this. I get the impression that for most people, it's not a serious infection, but as with flu, there will be some people more badly affected due to other physical factors (e.g. age, infirmity, compromised immune systems and so on). What is making people jumpy is that there is a lack of knowledge about infectiousness, and there is as yet no vaccine, as I understand they are working on this in the USA.

Interesting post about it being airborne and therefore being in the same room can result in infection. In which case, my previous point about aircraft cabins becomes even more valid, and how would most people travel to and from China?

nic168  
#14 Posted : 17 February 2020 10:02:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
nic168

 I had an FOI on this in my mail box this morning asking about the prepartaions in place for public places like libraries  and community centres.

Some of you may be getting similar questions from the public or customers.

A Kurdziel  
#15 Posted : 17 February 2020 10:16:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

The current advise from PHE (which should be regarded as definitive as oppose to some of the panic mongering in the media) to keep as usual and just make sure that the normal hygiene measures that you should be support( hand washing, getting rid of tissues from bins regularly etc ) are maintained.

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