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Rudy Qassim  
#1 Posted : 20 July 2020 15:41:05(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Rudy Qassim

Hi Everyone, 

Following this Covid-19 Pandemic, many employers asking their employees to work from home. regardless how the home-office should look like, a question here coming: 

How do you guys handle this topic so far in regards to Incident Reporting Requirements and what is really work related and what is not?

Examples:you are bending down under your desk to pick-up a pen then you hit your head with the desk, you got minor injury or tripped over a cable extention while rushing back from bathroom to join an online meeting. Report it as work-related? how will you classify this incident? do you have a policy already in place for such cases?

Thanks in Advance,

Rudy.

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 20 July 2020 18:41:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Incidents in this scenario should be at work (the activity) rather than in work (the location).

So for my simple mind it divides across "could it happen in the office"?

tripped over the work supplied laptop charging cable - work issue (could happen in the office)

tripped over an extension lead they have plugged the laptop charging cable in to - domestic issue (should not happen in the office)

electric shock from a frayed works mobile charger - works issue (could happen in the office)

electric shock from their domestic tablet charger - domestic issue (should not happen in the office)

fall from a chair the employer supplied - works issue (could happen in the office)

fall from dining chair - domestic issue (should not happen in the office)

It is going to get more interesting the longer employees remain at home, especially for those positions normally office based.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 21/07/2020(UTC), A Kurdziel on 21/07/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 20 July 2020 18:41:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Incidents in this scenario should be at work (the activity) rather than in work (the location).

So for my simple mind it divides across "could it happen in the office"?

tripped over the work supplied laptop charging cable - work issue (could happen in the office)

tripped over an extension lead they have plugged the laptop charging cable in to - domestic issue (should not happen in the office)

electric shock from a frayed works mobile charger - works issue (could happen in the office)

electric shock from their domestic tablet charger - domestic issue (should not happen in the office)

fall from a chair the employer supplied - works issue (could happen in the office)

fall from dining chair - domestic issue (should not happen in the office)

It is going to get more interesting the longer employees remain at home, especially for those positions normally office based.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 21/07/2020(UTC), A Kurdziel on 21/07/2020(UTC)
HSSnail  
#4 Posted : 21 July 2020 08:02:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Roundtuit and i must share the same simple mind - as i agree with his assessment. With the pen example i would never see that as a riddor accident as i dont class it as "work related" (unless they were working in a pen packing factory!) its like tripping over your own shoelace while walking round the office.

thanks 1 user thanked HSSnail for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 21/07/2020(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#5 Posted : 21 July 2020 08:32:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

If someone bends down at home to pick up a pen and injures themselves ask yourself the following questions 1) how serious is the injury likely to be? 2) What as an employer can you do about it?

3) Is this really work related or is it something that could happen anywhere at any time 4) is the HSE even slightly interested in this.

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
CptBeaky on 21/07/2020(UTC)
MrBrightside  
#6 Posted : 21 July 2020 13:09:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
MrBrightside

Would love to know how some of those would be investigated and what actions would be put in place to stop them from happening again;

"so Dave you tripped on your old carpet on your way back from the toilet to you desk, i'm sending you some gaffer tape in the post, can you stick it down mate"

If someone got electricuted from something we supplied (laptop cable) or the chair we supplied broke then yes. Any other accident in the home, then no. I have Zero control over how someone conducts themself at home or the condition their home is in. I would also have zero power to correct any issues that did not arrise from something we supplied.

Everyone fills out a checklist (DSE and general) and has a chance to raise any issues. 

thanks 2 users thanked MrBrightside for this useful post.
Kate on 21/07/2020(UTC), A Kurdziel on 23/07/2020(UTC)
Bigmac1  
#7 Posted : 22 July 2020 15:42:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bigmac1

I think a little bit of common sense is also needed.

What is in the risk assessment for this home working? 

chris.packham  
#8 Posted : 23 July 2020 09:22:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

One aspect of this that I am having some difficulty with is to what extent do I have responsibility and effective control over the home working environment. Can I be expected to take responsibilty for an accident in an environment where I have no authority, such as someone's home. In a workplace I - or other trained persons - will presumably be monitoring the working conditions to ensure health and safety standards are maintained. Would you anticipate having the same degree of control over that person's home? After all, they may not even have a room or space dedicated solely as an office and even if that were the case what right have I to insist on monitoring the conditions there? I work from home and, yes, I do have a room that is my 'office'. However, I also use this for personal work. Also I often take technical papers and go and sit in a comfortable armchair to rea read them. I have even been known to take my laptop into the garden and work from the table there. How will you monitor whether this is safe?

Perhaps this is one area where we need a different approach, such as to provide that individual with training and guidance and expect them to take responsibility for their own health and safety similar to the situation were they self employed. Should we be asking our political leaders for a clear legal definition of where we stand?

thanks 1 user thanked chris.packham for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 23/07/2020(UTC)
aud  
#9 Posted : 23 July 2020 15:29:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
aud

Sorry Chris but I wouldn't ask our political leaders the time. Let's figure this out for ourselves.

When you say ". . to what extent do I have responsibility and effective control over the home working environment . . " are you speaking as an employer or a safety adviser? It is of course the employer who has s2 responsibility, but only in so far as reasonably practicable, given the actual degree of control. Which in the case of private homes, is pretty limited. 

Background: I worked from home for my employer for 5 years, most employees were home based. They had a comprehensive guidance and policy pack, plus induction training (although back then it was on the head office site). Some loved it (me) but others found it difficult and expensive as a long term arrangement, as they realistically were providing a chunk of real estate to the company for very little real benefit. Others just found it soul destroying, missing the connections and interaction of the office. As a new worker, it took a couple of years to get to know others useful to my network, via phone calls, emails, occasional meetings, and a 2-day conference every few months. Before Zoom obviously. I learnt a lot during that time around home working, and have been called upon since to develop policy for homeworking in a couple of other organisations.

Lets go through this: The employer will be providing (let's assume) at least a laptop and some IT access. Of course the employer is responsible for the inherent safety of equipment, and also that workers can achieve a reasonably healthy and comfortable working posture / position, without being able to dictate exactly how. A key step is to educate managers, who may also be home working, on how to manage a dispersed out-of-sight team giving up a lot of autonomy and moving away from a single standard.

Practical list: With every laptop, provide as routine, an additional keyboard and mouse or other inputting device PLUS a laptop riser. Will also need a multigang socket / extension, and a work mobile phone charger. So are you going to add a smoke alarm and a socket tester or RCD? 

Each worker needs to have a discussion (call it an assessment if you must) regarding their home situation for work, whether there are specific issues or barriers to be taken into account, and what - if any - additional equipment the worker suggests, either then or in the future. If the worker needs and asks for a chair, let them choose, as they have to have it in their home, so it needs to suit them. An office chair is only any good if they already have a desk or table with space which they can use. If they live in a shared house even that could be a problem. Not everyone has a spare room or garden chalet they can dedicate to work. So the employer is not in control of anything very much, let alone staff tripping on the frayed carpet whilst carrying the laptop. 

Safety advisers can produce guidance for managers to give to home workers on setting up a comfortable work position, good practice around electrical safety, reporting problems or concerns, and advice on a good work life balance. There is plenty out there on adapting laptop workstations and dealing with practical aspects such as making a dining chair more supportive. Their role will become a mixture of supporting managers (as usual) and possibly helping individuals more than would be the case in the standard office. Where workers ask for a bit of kit, chair, folding table, etc. have a way of letting them choose and / or source.

The future looks like more companies will stick to having home working, with those for whom it does not really suit to be back in the office but with more space. We have to keep in mind that office work is pretty low risk, even with toy-strewn floors, sleeping dogs and juggling a laptop on the back of the sofa.

HOT NEWS: There is a virtual Working From Home Show on July 30th/31st with a H&S panel at 1.45pm on July 31st. See https://workingfromhomeshow.vfairs.com/  Warning: I am a panellist. I did provide a list of resources but not sure how if at all that will be offered. You're welcome to PM me for a copy direct email.

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