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craigroberts76  
#1 Posted : 31 July 2020 12:27:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
craigroberts76

Not quite H&S but a little more HR maybe.  As the government are constantly reviewing destinations abroad, I'm looking at our workers who have holidays booked and wondering if we need to ask if a) they are leaving the UK, and if so b) what country are they going to.  If a worker went to spain on Friday (which they did) they now need to isolate on their return, which obviously causes us an issue with scheduling work, risk to the office on return if they dont isolate etc.

If they decide not to isolate and come into the office and we dont know they should be, then potentially the whole office could be at risk.

what are your thoughts?

boblewis  
#2 Posted : 31 July 2020 12:43:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Send them home immediately they present but also notify the employee by recorded delivery preferably before they attend work.  Any other action could well close the whole building and staff for 14 days

craigroberts76  
#3 Posted : 31 July 2020 12:51:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
craigroberts76

without asking where they had been, how would we know? thats my issue really.

achrn  
#4 Posted : 31 July 2020 12:52:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Our procedures applicable to to all staff say that if they go anywhere they must comply with government guidance when they return, and they do so at their risk - so if they have to isolate and can't work at home they'll need to take that period as leave too, though we have said they can take it as unpaid leave if they give sufficient notice.

We've also pointed out that the company-provided travel insurance doesn't cover covid-related claims, so anyone booking anything at this time is at risk.

We also have a couple of people who have family abroad where we've allowed them to go abroad and 'work from home' for two weeks over there before their holiday starts, because they need to isolate after arrival there and don't want to spend all their holiday isolating.  This depends on them being able to WFH wherever they are going, and all such cases are case-by-case approval.

craigroberts76  
#5 Posted : 31 July 2020 12:59:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
craigroberts76

Originally Posted by: achrn Go to Quoted Post

Our procedures applicable to to all staff say that if they go anywhere they must comply with government guidance when they return, and they do so at their risk - so if they have to isolate and can't work at home they'll need to take that period as leave too, though we have said they can take it as unpaid leave if they give sufficient notice.

We've also pointed out that the company-provided travel insurance doesn't cover covid-related claims, so anyone booking anything at this time is at risk.

We also have a couple of people who have family abroad where we've allowed them to go abroad and 'work from home' for two weeks over there before their holiday starts, because they need to isolate after arrival there and don't want to spend all their holiday isolating.  This depends on them being able to WFH wherever they are going, and all such cases are case-by-case approval.

So do you ask if they are going spain, italy france etc? people are trusted to isolate, but we know that that isnt always the case

Brian Hagyard  
#6 Posted : 31 July 2020 13:08:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Brian Hagyard

Do you have to tell your employer where you are going on Holiday? One for the HR/Legal Team for me. And what are you going to do if they tell you and should be quaranteened? If you refuse to pay them (which ACAS says you can) will they tell you the truth?

Im sure i read an article saying the quaranteen checks were not being made as they should be on people returning to UK. (cannot find it now)

What a flipping mess - bit like the tweet at 10:00 last night about incrased restrictions in parts of North of England!

thanks 1 user thanked Brian Hagyard for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 03/08/2020(UTC)
craigroberts76  
#7 Posted : 31 July 2020 13:26:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
craigroberts76

Originally Posted by: Brian Hagyard Go to Quoted Post

Do you have to tell your employer where you are going on Holiday? One for the HR/Legal Team for me. And what are you going to do if they tell you and should be quaranteened? If you refuse to pay them (which ACAS says you can) will they tell you the truth?

Im sure i read an article saying the quaranteen checks were not being made as they should be on people returning to UK. (cannot find it now)

What a flipping mess - bit like the tweet at 10:00 last night about incrased restrictions in parts of North of England!

exactly, but when they book (2 weeks notice) we will possibly have an idea, if that country is off the bridge list then we have a duty to protect the rest of us in the office.

Brian Hagyard  
#8 Posted : 31 July 2020 13:39:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Brian Hagyard

if that country is off the bridge list then we have a duty to protect the rest of us in the office. -

Dont disgree with you but while normaly most people are more than happy to tell you where they are going (often brag about it) what rights do we have as an employer if they refuse to tell us? So how do we manage to enforce this?- "You wont tell me where your going so you will take 2 weeks unpaid leave!" as i say Mess Mess Mess!

A Kurdziel  
#9 Posted : 31 July 2020 14:41:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

When you return to the UK from Spain or wherever you must under the Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel) (England) Regulations 2020- snappy title- fill in a Passenger Locator Form. That tells the powers that be where you will be quarantining for the 14 days required. In theory public health officials will come along and visit you to make sure that you’re complying with the quarantine. I can’t imagine that actually happening but that’s the system.  There is no duty placed on employers or anybody else to do anything. If an employee turns up all mysteriously tanned after their fortnight in Skegness they are under no obligation to tell you where they have been. If it turns up and they have been abroad and did not keep their quarantine and then of course you can sack them but that definitely falls into the remit of HR not H&S

Roundtuit  
#10 Posted : 31 July 2020 16:55:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Very simple really to eliminate the risk you close the office.

Not approving holidays does not stop people travelling whilst off work "sick".

The virus itself is not sat waiting at an airport - it is everywhere.

Your staff will interact with others away from the office as do their households i.e. more infection routes beyond your control.

It also travels both ways https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/couple-who-holidayed-manchester-spark-18675644

Roundtuit  
#11 Posted : 31 July 2020 16:55:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Very simple really to eliminate the risk you close the office.

Not approving holidays does not stop people travelling whilst off work "sick".

The virus itself is not sat waiting at an airport - it is everywhere.

Your staff will interact with others away from the office as do their households i.e. more infection routes beyond your control.

It also travels both ways https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/couple-who-holidayed-manchester-spark-18675644

achrn  
#12 Posted : 03 August 2020 09:11:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Originally Posted by: craigroberts76 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: achrn Go to Quoted Post

Our procedures applicable to to all staff say that if they go anywhere they must comply with government guidance when they return, and they do so at their risk - so if they have to isolate and can't work at home they'll need to take that period as leave too, though we have said they can take it as unpaid leave if they give sufficient notice.

So do you ask if they are going spain, italy france etc? people are trusted to isolate, but we know that that isnt always the case

No - there's no point.  We've told them they must isolate and not return to the office if the government guidance says they should do that.  If they disregard that instruction, then asking them where they went won't achieve anything because they'll likely just lie about where they went - 'yeah, two weeks in Swindon mate, lovely it was'.

thanks 4 users thanked achrn for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 03/08/2020(UTC), Wailes900134 on 03/08/2020(UTC), Kate on 03/08/2020(UTC), nic168 on 04/08/2020(UTC)
craigroberts76  
#13 Posted : 03 August 2020 10:03:32(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
craigroberts76

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

Very simple really to eliminate the risk you close the office.

Not approving holidays does not stop people travelling whilst off work "sick".

The virus itself is not sat waiting at an airport - it is everywhere.

Your staff will interact with others away from the office as do their households i.e. more infection routes beyond your control.

It also travels both ways https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/couple-who-holidayed-manchester-spark-18675644

Okay close all offices then... not quite a solution.

We're now requesting info on if they are likely to be leaving the UK and to what country.  If they lie, they lie but we have it recorded.  Doing something proactive is better than nothing.

Roundtuit  
#14 Posted : 03 August 2020 11:13:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Workplace procedures based upon false information is worse than doing nothing.

Again over the weekend many UK establishments identified as sources of outbreaks - where employees go on a foreign holiday is the least of anyones problems.

thanks 8 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 03/08/2020(UTC), peter gotch on 03/08/2020(UTC), Kate on 03/08/2020(UTC), nic168 on 04/08/2020(UTC), A Kurdziel on 03/08/2020(UTC), peter gotch on 03/08/2020(UTC), Kate on 03/08/2020(UTC), nic168 on 04/08/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#15 Posted : 03 August 2020 11:13:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Workplace procedures based upon false information is worse than doing nothing.

Again over the weekend many UK establishments identified as sources of outbreaks - where employees go on a foreign holiday is the least of anyones problems.

thanks 8 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 03/08/2020(UTC), peter gotch on 03/08/2020(UTC), Kate on 03/08/2020(UTC), nic168 on 04/08/2020(UTC), A Kurdziel on 03/08/2020(UTC), peter gotch on 03/08/2020(UTC), Kate on 03/08/2020(UTC), nic168 on 04/08/2020(UTC)
achrn  
#16 Posted : 05 August 2020 09:47:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

There really is something badly wrong with your posting setup Roundtuit - now not only is everything you say said twice, it seems that anyone who thanks you gets credited twice on each duplicate post, so that's four times too much. Have you tried to find out if it's you or the forum system?  Have you asked the forum bods if they know what casues it?

Roundtuit  
#17 Posted : 05 August 2020 10:46:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

The request went to web help quite some time ago - they even ran some test postings under my user name in the social forum last week. To date I think we are with Toyah Wilcox "It's a mystery"

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
achrn on 06/08/2020(UTC), achrn on 06/08/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#18 Posted : 05 August 2020 10:46:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

The request went to web help quite some time ago - they even ran some test postings under my user name in the social forum last week. To date I think we are with Toyah Wilcox "It's a mystery"

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
achrn on 06/08/2020(UTC), achrn on 06/08/2020(UTC)
CptBeaky  
#19 Posted : 05 August 2020 11:57:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

I have a person that goes to an unlisted country in the next few weeks. They didn't have the foresight to check the rules. We have agreed the time off, without asking where they are going. It is now obvious they will need to isolate for 14 days on return, which will cause us disruption, and them financial loss (it will have to be unpaid). Getting into a minor argument as to whether it counts as un-authorised absence. I can't agree that it does, and therefore shouldn't show on their record. Not sure when HR sneaked into my role.

Still not sure what we do if they turn up for work and insist they didn't go afterall. It doesn't help that last week this person was visited by family (obviously not at work) from that same country that obviously didn't follow the rules anyway!

Roundtuit  
#20 Posted : 05 August 2020 12:34:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Looking at the regulation I am struggling to find reference that someone already in the isolation accomodation (your employee) must also isolate (in addition to the travelling family member) 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/568/regulation/4

Roundtuit  
#21 Posted : 05 August 2020 12:34:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Looking at the regulation I am struggling to find reference that someone already in the isolation accomodation (your employee) must also isolate (in addition to the travelling family member) 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/568/regulation/4

Mick72  
#22 Posted : 05 August 2020 12:50:19(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Mick72

We had a staff member return from a European country on the list, they where given paperwork at the airport stating they must self-isolate for 14 days it also said that the police may check up to ensure compliance.

 We have also had staff return from the same country by ferry and they received no paperwork in both instances they have been told to stay at home and they are receiving no pay for the self-isolation period, we then warn any one booking leave and planning to travel to a restricted country that they will also receive no pay for the isolation period, this is just so they are aware of the fact and not to discourage holidays from being booked.

CptBeaky  
#23 Posted : 06 August 2020 07:54:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

Looking at the regulation I am struggling to find reference that someone already in the isolation accomodation (your employee) must also isolate (in addition to the travelling family member) 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/568/regulation/4

sorry you mis-understand me. The family members were not quarantining. They were going out together.

biker1  
#24 Posted : 06 August 2020 15:35:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Bit of a lack of self-control here, in my opinion. Do people really, really have to go abroad on holiday at the moment with all of the problems going on? Of course not. I wouldn't take the risk of going abroad this year; it's dodgy enough in the UK with the appearance of local lockdowns. But with the demob mentality that seems to prevail at the moment, people just don't have the sense to write off this year, and just can't wait to flock to anywhere, with the attitude that the crisis is over. It isn't.

thanks 1 user thanked biker1 for this useful post.
chris42 on 06/08/2020(UTC)
stevedm  
#25 Posted : 06 August 2020 17:15:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

We do a wee dashboard of the 14 day case rate by country and show whether that is going up or down...we work mainly with key workers...we show our staff that almost daily and they make thier own decisons on holidays but if they choose a country with a 14 day rate greater than 10/100,000 people that is increasing then they either isolate(unpaid) or provide a negative test on thier return from hollibobs before starting work...

You have to have an option otherwise as others have said you will just get people who will lie about where they have been...

A Kurdziel  
#26 Posted : 07 August 2020 08:16:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

OK so what do we do about a colleague who is Belgian and last week he went to back, with his family to meet his relatives for a few weeks. He has now been informed that when he returns he and his family will have to quarantine for 2 weeks. Should he be given the sack?  Should we only employ local people for local jobs, who stay local, talk local eat and be local?

Roundtuit  
#27 Posted : 07 August 2020 09:40:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

As an EU citizen employed within the UK there are rights which will make dismissal or even docking salary during quarantine an interesting case at arbitration.

Roundtuit  
#28 Posted : 07 August 2020 09:40:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

As an EU citizen employed within the UK there are rights which will make dismissal or even docking salary during quarantine an interesting case at arbitration.

stevedm  
#29 Posted : 07 August 2020 10:01:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

AK my immediate answer is some people would love that...but for me no and hell no...what I am trying to say is that regardless of your employees status (i.e. key worker or not) your company needs to have active monitoring of the situation to ensure you and your employees are well informed of the potential outcomes or any forgien travel...you all seem to be relying too much on waiting for the government to say something...why not take an industry lead, maybe?...as a key worker I have been travelling to nearly all of the countries mentioned for one reason or another....been tested more times that I have hot dinners...only had one problem in Germany ...with a surface temperature test but when I took the febrile temp and showed them I was ok...advantages of carrying medical kit everywhere :)  

achrn  
#30 Posted : 07 August 2020 11:20:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

As an EU citizen employed within the UK there are rights which will make dismissal or even docking salary during quarantine an interesting case at arbitration.

That has been much discussed on the various news web sites - you are not entitled to pay if quarantining due to returning from somewhere while not displaying symptoms.  Even ACAS (apparently) agrees with this interpretation, so I don't believe it wiull lead to any arbitration.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53545222

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