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manolan  
#1 Posted : 14 October 2020 09:04:06(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
manolan

Hi,

Is LEV mandatory when using Metalworking fluid (Hysol XF) diluted on a Colchester lathe, Saw, Enclosed CNC Lathe & Milling machine due to the risk of inhalation of MWF mist.

I'm completing a COSHH RA for decanting from 205l drums, changing MWF, cleaning sumps & systems. We conduct Health surveillance, weekly Legionalla checks, maintain MWF quality and working concentration using a refractometer and have adequate measures for the safe disposal.

My main concern is controlling exposure to MWF mist. Our engineers stand over the chuck and chuck guard to evaluate the quality of the work piece. I've looked at "Good working guide for Safe Handling and Disposal of MWF".

Any help, advice would be greatly appreciated.

peter gotch  
#2 Posted : 14 October 2020 12:33:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Difficult to say, not least since the Safety Data Sheet is perhaps not as clear as it might be.

https://www.mscdirect.co.uk/MSDS/CLU70472M.pdf

Will depend on various factors including how much dilution and how much usage of the machinery. 

May be the likes of the Engineering Employers Federation may have some research data on how much MWF mist could be expected from the operations being done.

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manolan on 15/10/2020(UTC)
Kate  
#3 Posted : 14 October 2020 14:36:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

The EEF is now more trendily named as Make UK.

I'm not making this up ...

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manolan on 15/10/2020(UTC), George_Young on 17/10/2020(UTC)
peter gotch  
#4 Posted : 14 October 2020 14:50:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Kate - yes, I had forgotten that change!

Too long since I got involved in engineering workshops. "EEF" was less of a mouthful.

But some engineering in the Security Image - PbSi - lead and silicon - could work on either of them with some of the machinery in the posting.

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manolan on 15/10/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#5 Posted : 14 October 2020 15:23:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Are you actually having samples sent for legionella determination or using DIP slides in house (Total Microbial + Yeasts & Molds)?

Legionella is a very species specific plate counting test which could miss the presence of molds accumulating in the fluid.

The SDS does not identify any substances with distinct Occupational Exposure Limits but it does discuss levels of mist which would be subject to controls.

Have you tested what levels the mist are at during the operation as this will determine if controls such as LEV are necessary

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
manolan on 15/10/2020(UTC), manolan on 15/10/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#6 Posted : 14 October 2020 15:23:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Are you actually having samples sent for legionella determination or using DIP slides in house (Total Microbial + Yeasts & Molds)?

Legionella is a very species specific plate counting test which could miss the presence of molds accumulating in the fluid.

The SDS does not identify any substances with distinct Occupational Exposure Limits but it does discuss levels of mist which would be subject to controls.

Have you tested what levels the mist are at during the operation as this will determine if controls such as LEV are necessary

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
manolan on 15/10/2020(UTC), manolan on 15/10/2020(UTC)
manolan  
#7 Posted : 15 October 2020 12:58:04(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
manolan

Are you actually having samples sent for legionella determination or using DIP slides in house (Total Microbial + Yeasts & Molds)? - Both as we have a contract with RMC and conduct weekly dipslide inhouse.

Legionella is a very species specific plate counting test which could miss the presence of molds accumulating in the fluid.

The SDS does not identify any substances with distinct Occupational Exposure Limits but it does discuss levels of mist which would be subject to controls.

Have you tested what levels the mist are at during the operation as this will determine if controls such as LEV are necessary. I have not yet, so this is obviously by first step. Many Thanks for the advise. I'll research and maybe get some technical advice and conduct air monitoring.

paul.skyrme  
#8 Posted : 16 October 2020 18:00:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

Do the air monitoring first.

Keep a close eye on the chemistry of the fluids, they can go "off" and get quite nasty.

Once you have the air monitoring tests then you can decide on your controls.

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manolan on 21/10/2020(UTC)
Wailes900134  
#9 Posted : 17 October 2020 21:37:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Wailes900134

Splash guards and local extraction are recognised good practice but as the generation of mist, fumes and vapour is so variable on the flow rate of fluid, type of nozzle, speed of workpiece (lathe) or tool (milling, sawing) etc. if you intend to sample the local atmosphere potentially to justify not providing such protection you'd want to be confident you have representative conditions. HSG129 H&S in Engineering Workshops, and indg365 Working Safely with MWF have more information and are available as free PDFs downloads.
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manolan on 21/10/2020(UTC)
chris.packham  
#10 Posted : 17 October 2020 21:58:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Testing for mist needs to be done under worst case condition, i.e. when the machining operation dictates that maximum mist will be generated. Any LEV would need to be able to adequately control mist exposure under such conditions. Of course, this will be overkill for many other machining operations. Keep in mind that where there is respiratory exposure there will also inevitably also be facial skin exposure and that some chemicals can cause damage through skin uptake at levels well below the WEL.

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paul.skyrme on 19/10/2020(UTC)
John Murray  
#11 Posted : 19 October 2020 21:43:21(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Murray

Working safely with metalworking fluids. https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg365.pdf

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manolan on 21/10/2020(UTC)
AlB  
#12 Posted : 20 October 2020 08:58:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
AlB

Are you using compressed air to clear swarf etc from the machines? The only difficulty i had controlling exposure to MWF mist was when they introduced compressed air lines for clean down....   however there are products to help (https://knowledge.silvent.com/us/how-to-safely-clean-away-metal-fluids-by-blowing-with-compressed-air)

I always find a good place to start is air monitoring... it will give you a good idea as to which processes are the highest risk 

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manolan on 21/10/2020(UTC)
John Murray  
#13 Posted : 21 October 2020 06:28:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Murray

Whole new bundle of fun there.....deciding what RPE to give to the operator to wear while working in a mist of dissolved oils and anti-bacterial/anti-fungal additives. 2020 and still in the stone-age. I'm glad I retired.

thanks 2 users thanked John Murray for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 21/10/2020(UTC), manolan on 21/10/2020(UTC)
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