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SammyK  
#1 Posted : 06 January 2021 09:40:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SammyK

Morning all, apologies for asking another question about this! my workplace have now said that if a member of staff have tested positive for COVID they are to have an NHS negative COVID test before returning to work. Has anyone else heard this? surely it goes against guidance that is. Self isolate for 10 days dont leave house unless symptom free for 48 hours without symptoms? I cant find any info online that says you should get another test. Does anyone have any thoughts? thank you!

HSSnail  
#2 Posted : 06 January 2021 10:02:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

You are right Sammy their is no requirement under the guidance or regulations to get a -ve test to return to work. Not sure how someone would access a second test through NHS (unless they lied) and there have been a number of threads before about the ability of employers to compel staff to take test and provide the results - i will leave that one to the legal people.

However i also read that UK may want anyone entering the country to provide a negative test result - a bit like the drivers had to to return to Europe over Christmas - so thats not to say the legislation may change.

Edited by user 06 January 2021 10:04:07(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

A Kurdziel  
#3 Posted : 06 January 2021 10:10:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

“before they can return to work” Does that means that they are being furloughed or suspended with no pay. It sounds like someone is looking to cut down on staff pay.

A negative test does not prove anything except that you do not have the virus at the time of the test. You can walk out of the test centre and be infected 5 minutes later, which is why the government does not support this approach and against the idea of a “covid passport”. Unless you test everyday and isolate between tests it’s pointless.

Roundtuit  
#4 Posted : 06 January 2021 10:51:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

When the concept of testing for cause came out there were no facilities to support such action as the laboratories were already swamped and this was before the mass tesing regiemes implemented in areas such as Liverpool.

It was one of the reasons travellers could not shorten their return quarantine through paying for a test.

Of course your employer will likely say "it's only one test..." trouble is when everyone acts in the same manner a limited resource is rapidly consumed - stock pilers only take one pack of toilet roll but if everyone does it on the same day then the shelves are empty.

As AK has said the test would only prove a result (one way or another) at a very specific moment in time.

Roundtuit  
#5 Posted : 06 January 2021 10:51:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

When the concept of testing for cause came out there were no facilities to support such action as the laboratories were already swamped and this was before the mass tesing regiemes implemented in areas such as Liverpool.

It was one of the reasons travellers could not shorten their return quarantine through paying for a test.

Of course your employer will likely say "it's only one test..." trouble is when everyone acts in the same manner a limited resource is rapidly consumed - stock pilers only take one pack of toilet roll but if everyone does it on the same day then the shelves are empty.

As AK has said the test would only prove a result (one way or another) at a very specific moment in time.

chris.packham  
#6 Posted : 06 January 2021 11:09:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

I have studies that report that residual RNA following a Covid-19 infection can return a positive test result for some weeks after recovery. Thus the concept of testing suggested could result in a number of people having to spend longer than needed away from the workplace.

thanks 1 user thanked chris.packham for this useful post.
Mark-W on 11/01/2021(UTC)
Gerry Knowles  
#7 Posted : 06 January 2021 12:42:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Gerry Knowles

The negative test is a red herring and as a number of contributers have said it only proves that at the time of the test you were negative.  I would suggest that it is only valid until you leave the test centre.  So asking for a negative test does not prove anything. 

As a business we have said to employees throughout the pandemic that they must react to symptoms and follow the guidelines and above all inform the business what is going on.  

Unfortunately I cant say how effective this has been as until now we have had no positive cases within our workforce neither have we had any instances where an employee has to self isolate.  I guess we may have been lucky. 

Edited by user 06 January 2021 12:42:57(UTC)  | Reason: Spelling error

peter gotch  
#8 Posted : 06 January 2021 15:34:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Sammy - no apology required. Someone has had a "good idea".

Suggest you try and find out who has come up with this edict and ask them to explain the rationale.

Then, probably point out that multiple sources provide guidance that this is NOT the way forward.

chris.packham  
#9 Posted : 08 January 2021 10:32:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

I wonder how reliable a negative test is anyway. Having had such a test whilst an in-patient and experienced how this was done presumably correctly by a trained and experienced nurse I have some doubts about how well samples will be taken by individuals with almost certainly only limited or no training. The quality of the result will obviously depend on the quality of the sample taken. So if a negative result is shown could this be because the sampling did not reach the places it needed to reach? How would we know?

Kate  
#10 Posted : 08 January 2021 10:55:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Chris, I agree.  I did a home test and can't say I had full confidence in the negative result - I did try to swab my tonsils but this isn't at all an easy thing to do.  The instructions suggested practising first with a cotton bud which I did a few times, but still didn't feel confident in my technique.  And I didn't want to do lots of practice as it might make my throat sore.

chris.packham  
#11 Posted : 08 January 2021 11:59:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Kate - so what do you think of the Government idea that school children should take their own swabs?

Kate  
#12 Posted : 08 January 2021 12:57:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

I was just reading the medical column in the latest issue of Private Eye and it claims that while positive test results are reliable, negative test results may be wrong in about half of cases.

chris.packham  
#13 Posted : 08 January 2021 13:33:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Kate - you might find this interesting reading: https://arc-w.nihr.ac.uk/news/coronavirus-how-accurate-are-coronavirus-tests/

thanks 1 user thanked chris.packham for this useful post.
Kate on 08/01/2021(UTC)
Pandatank  
#14 Posted : 08 January 2021 14:41:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Pandatank

Originally Posted by: Kate Go to Quoted Post
Chris, I agree. I did a home test and can't say I had full confidence in the negative result - I did try to swab my tonsils but this isn't at all an easy thing to do. The instructions suggested practising first with a cotton bud which I did a few times, but still didn't feel confident in my technique. And I didn't want to do lots of practice as it might make my throat sore.
Yeah, the swabbing your tonsils while avoidi g the gag/vom reflex because vom on the swab nullifies the result, yeah it's tricky. The buzz on social media (even among health professionals) is all about the false positive rates. Issues with false negatives is a new one on me.
MikeKelly  
#15 Posted : 08 January 2021 14:46:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MikeKelly

Hi Kate

That covid column by MD is probably the best one around and a happy new year to Private Eye too-keep it up.

It should be essential reading for all Tory [mostly] politicians and those at cabinet level in particular.

Regards

Mike 

peter gotch  
#16 Posted : 08 January 2021 16:22:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Pandatank

The buzz on mainstream media has been about false negatives for many months.

It has influenced e.g. the debate as to the efficacy of requiring negative tests for those travelling between nations.

Repeated claims that the proportion of false negatives may be quite high, whatever the test method used (but varying depending on method and how and by whom deployed).

To respond to Kate's point, I find the idea that small children would self test to be somewhat ludicrous. For medical reasons I have been swabbing out my mouth with plastic sponges mounted on sticks for 3 years. 50% of the time makes me retch and that's just when I do my upper palate, not if I were to try and reach down to the throat. Can't see primary school kids putting themselves through this ordeal and doing it effectively. 

Roundtuit  
#17 Posted : 08 January 2021 16:58:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Its okay the "not children" in school can add it to their days activity. They are already expected to deal with the bodily functions of societies youngest - "fetch the Pink Stuff"!

Roundtuit  
#18 Posted : 08 January 2021 16:58:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Its okay the "not children" in school can add it to their days activity. They are already expected to deal with the bodily functions of societies youngest - "fetch the Pink Stuff"!

Pandatank  
#19 Posted : 25 January 2021 19:25:16(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Pandatank

I wonder what anyone thinks about this?

https://ccpgloballockdownfraud.medium.com/the-chinese-communist-partys-global-lockdown-fraud-88e1a7286c2b

Edited by user 25 January 2021 19:26:48(UTC)  | Reason: Hyperlink insert

stevedm  
#20 Posted : 26 January 2021 07:43:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

seems this forum has become a haven for covid doubters and consiracy theorists...maybe talking to some of my frontline staff both here in the UK and China when they see people dying from this might change your view...but who am I kidding really?  you will just troll me and shout at me until I stop posting views that don't match yours..

To answer the OP...we ask for and have done for more than a year now a negative test for any HCID that our staff contract before starting work..that is in frontline healthcare but I can see the advantage in safety critical environments - you would have to classify them as safety critical workers to add the extra layer assurance..for lower risk environments I would look at other measures, sticking in line with current guidance..

achrn  
#21 Posted : 26 January 2021 07:49:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Originally Posted by: stevedm Go to Quoted Post

To answer the OP...we ask for and have done for more than a year now a negative test for any HCID that our staff contract before starting work.

Do you do so with respect to Covid (noting that it is not a HCID)?

stevedm  
#22 Posted : 26 January 2021 07:54:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

Just because the UK no longer classes it as HCID it doesn't mean other countries do the same...and yes we still require it...

A Kurdziel  
#23 Posted : 26 January 2021 10:41:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

New acronym HCID- see more on this https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-hcid/

 

Basically HCID- high consequence diseases refer to exotic infections with high mortality rates. So, we are talking abut things like Ebola etc.  When Covid 19 was first spotted PHE etc decided to class it as a HCID but they then downgraded it as they realised that the mortality rate was about  5%  not the higher mortality rates you get with the classic HCID which are in the region of 50-90%

thanks 2 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
Roundtuit on 26/01/2021(UTC), CptBeaky on 26/01/2021(UTC)
achrn  
#24 Posted : 26 January 2021 11:01:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

New acronym HCID- see more on this https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-hcid/

 

Or https://www.gov.uk/guida...infectious-diseases-hcid

Sorry, I thought that was another terms that ahd entered general circulation (at least among H&S professionals).  Some of the HCIDs have fatality rates that are 'only' about 10%, but otherwise broadly yes, acute infectious disease with high fatality rate and difficulties detecting and/or treating it.

dan.sherrin@live.com  
#25 Posted : 26 January 2021 13:22:20(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
dan.sherrin@live.com

Like many companies, a large number of employees where I work were told to work from home from March 2020. Those people are still working from home and have now been told that this will be the case until at least 30th September 2021, when it will next be reviewed. As Health & Safety Manager, my main focus has been on keeping our office and workshop (for those who can't do their job at home) Covid safe. I asked about DSE assessments, etc for our home workers, but was told by people above me that this is not required, as this is temporary and low risk, and that I must not pursue any further. The HSE say the following on their website:  "As an employer, you have the same health and safety responsibilities for home workers as for any other workers"

https://www.hse.gov.uk/toolbox/workers/home.htm

I appreciate that it's not easy to ensure our home workers are working in a safe environment, but feel there must be something that can be done for this, as well as ensuring they are feeling supported from a mental health perspective. 

I'm putting this out there to see if anyone can advise what other companies are doing in this area, as it must be a very common issue at the moment. Any comments gratefully received, thank you

HSSnail  
#26 Posted : 26 January 2021 14:10:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Dan.

this has been discussed a number of times since this situation started.

Unfortunatly the HSE chose to include the following

"There is no increased risk from DSE work for those working at home temporarily. So in that situation employers do not need to ask them to carry out home workstation assessments."

In their guidance - it looks as if they are begining to take a firmer stance - but unfortunatly until they define a length of time that counts as "temporarily" its difficult to say we MUST do more. For me this has become perminant home working for some but  its difficult to argue that untill the HSE change thier wording.

thanks 1 user thanked HSSnail for this useful post.
dan.sherrin@live.com on 26/01/2021(UTC)
graham hendry  
#27 Posted : 26 January 2021 14:24:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
graham hendry

Sounds like a breach of Employment Law

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