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#1 Posted : 08 January 2021 17:02:26(UTC)
Rank: New forum user

I am trying to determine the requirement for competence for entry into a confined space. I've react the relevant section of the ACOP. Para 85 states that "Workers must have adequate training and experience in the particular work involved to be competence to work in a confined space..."

I interprete this as meaning that if welding is required then a competent welded is use. Where I work, CSE work is controlled under PTW system with requirement for a trained standby man. The entrant is trained in key skill such as personal monitor, BA wearing should they be necessary. My understanding is that specific CSE training is not mandatory for the entrant.

Feedback on this issue much appreciated.

Thank you.

peter gotch  
#2 Posted : 09 January 2021 11:40:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Paul - the law requires that people receive appropriate information and training but rarely specifies exactly what that means.

The risks of work in confined spaces vary quite dramatically. It follows that any one size fits all approach to determining competency requirements is likely to be inappropriate.

In the UK water industry there are National Classifications of confined spaces NC1 to NC3, based on relevant level of risk + NC4 when what is being done in a confined space is likely to substantially change the level of risk. However, I think there is one water company which has not adopted these classifications but using a similar but not identical method of deciding how to assess the risks of confined spaces, and thence training requirements.

So, in your case, it appears that you have assessed the process and decided on a package of precautions to deal with the risks. Not knowing your circumstances it is impossible to assess whether what you are doing is fully appropriate.

thanks 1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
aud on 11/01/2021(UTC)
#3 Posted : 10 January 2021 19:41:11(UTC)
Rank: New forum user

Peter - Thank you for your reply. We use our own Cat 1 -3 raking so I think I will introduce training for Cat 2 -3 being entries that are more hazardous. If there is potential for toxic gas to be present (e.g. inside a chemical reactor) then we measure the toxic gas conc. and reference it to specified WEL and IDLH values. Thanks again.

#4 Posted : 11 January 2021 07:46:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user

I would say they do need confined space training but this might be quite limited in scope, such as explaining the dangers of confined spaces and the processes you have put in place to control them.  This could be a very short session you do in-house rather than any form of external or accredited training.

#5 Posted : 11 January 2021 08:31:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user

It's been a few years since I taught confined spaces, we used to have entrant who went in completed the work. Top man who controlled the safety winch and entry/exit into the space and the rescue team. 

This was for a military working space where we were conducting searches for weapons/explosives etc. I'm not sure how civvy companies could cope with the cost of the manpower sat around as rescue team. It's a lot of resources to be tied up on a job.

The military only really got into confined spaces after we lost a couple of blokes in an accident that could easily of been avoided

Martin Gray  
#6 Posted : 14 January 2021 15:53:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Martin Gray

Paul100, I used to train confined space entry to conform to the ACOP.  Each course was specific to the industry and type of entry as has been said previously the risks and types of entry are different and not all require the standard of tyhe water industry.

Some of the companies required entry into confined spaces where welding was undertaken,  electrical works, use of chemicals for cleaning, plumbing/pipework, welding and NDT inspections in aviation fuel tanks.

The instructor needs to spend time and study your risks and you need to provide them with the risk assessment and method statement for the work.  I would then go through the training with the person who requested the training and we would discuss where points needed to be emphasised with their employees during the course.

The entrant, Topman and Rescue personnel all require training and need to be able to work as a team.

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