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MrBrightside  
#1 Posted : 15 January 2021 11:11:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
MrBrightside

Hi All,

I'm going to start using Microsoft Forms for sites to complete internal checks, audits etc and was wondering how I would fit this into our ISO procedures for 45001 and 14001. Mainly in terms of version numbers, dating etc.

Could I just make refence to the Forms in the process documents and because its a live online document it would always be the latest version.

Has anyone down anything similar, any pitfalls? 

Thank You

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 15 January 2021 12:20:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

You need to be able to archive documents that are updated so you can see their evolution over time.

I have previously done this in two ways:

1) Using document footers to add version number and date same way a "hard copy" would be traced

2) Using a named pdf as the archive (replaced.....)

Either way the change log needs to be reflective of current status

The "procedures" should clearly identify that live documents are "on-line" and where there is the need to generate hard copy this carries some form of recognition e.g. valid 48 hours from print date and then a system generated "today" date.

Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 15 January 2021 12:20:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

You need to be able to archive documents that are updated so you can see their evolution over time.

I have previously done this in two ways:

1) Using document footers to add version number and date same way a "hard copy" would be traced

2) Using a named pdf as the archive (replaced.....)

Either way the change log needs to be reflective of current status

The "procedures" should clearly identify that live documents are "on-line" and where there is the need to generate hard copy this carries some form of recognition e.g. valid 48 hours from print date and then a system generated "today" date.

achrn  
#4 Posted : 15 January 2021 17:16:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

The main failing with MS forms relates to the archiving of copies of what was filled in for record purposes.  MS' system is prone to not giving you a copy of anything, just a link to what it thinks is the current version of a particular instance of teh form, and it will happily change that even after teh form was submitted.  We had some teething problems with management forms where someone wiped the content of previously submitted forms, and then it's gone.

For example:

An office completes an inspection or audit or something and records it on the form.  They get a link that's supposedly what they submitted.

Some time later someone checking the audit records looks at that form, accidently deletes or changes something, then looks at another instance of teh form, but that automatically submits the inadvertent change.

Now the link to what was submitted is no longer a link to what was submitted, it is a link to the modified version.  The submitted version is gone.

So make sure you keep an actual static copy of the submitted form - save it to pdf or something (with a complex or long or multi-page form this can be harder than it ought to be).

The other gotcha is that by default forms belong to an individual.  If your forms are created by e.g. an admin member of staff, then they leave the business and your IT dept cancel that O365 account, you lose your form and all the submitted instances of it.  Make sure the form is passed on to another account (I'm not actuially sure how teh mechanics of that work, but I'm told it can be done) before canceling the account that created it.

I preferred JotForm, which was what we used before someone decided that because MS Forms was by MS it must be better and we'd drop JotForm.  Jotform had a whole lot fewer gotchas and pathological behaviours. Less lost data and fewer headaches in the many years we used JotForm than the less-than-one year we've been using MS Forms. The blanket assumption that if it's by MS it must be the best option available (an attitude that is far more prevalent than it ough to be) really annoys me.

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