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Taplinm  
#1 Posted : 05 April 2021 14:08:30(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Taplinm

Hi, we are trying to establish sensible limits for our policy. We realise the Polce road limits are 35mg in England and 22 in Scotland, but no other real guidance we can see.

Does anyone have any thoughts as we are trying to determine 9 or 10 as the rail sector use 8mg.

Obviously this needs backing up with in the policy/procedure of the actions as they would be a company limit not the Government limits?

Thoughts?

Edited by user 05 April 2021 14:09:27(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 05 April 2021 14:51:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Why do you need a policy - is there an actual need e.g. professional drivers, trackside working or merely the desire to enforce a position of will against others?

Beware if your business relies upon flexibility from the workforce - impose a low limit and you need to consider if it is then suitable or fair to "call in" those who are scheduled off work.

BTW drink drive limits are exactly that - other forms of transport have different levels e.g. UK pilots 20mg, senior maintenace personnel 80mg, ships duty crew 25mg

Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 05 April 2021 14:51:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Why do you need a policy - is there an actual need e.g. professional drivers, trackside working or merely the desire to enforce a position of will against others?

Beware if your business relies upon flexibility from the workforce - impose a low limit and you need to consider if it is then suitable or fair to "call in" those who are scheduled off work.

BTW drink drive limits are exactly that - other forms of transport have different levels e.g. UK pilots 20mg, senior maintenace personnel 80mg, ships duty crew 25mg

Taplinm  
#4 Posted : 05 April 2021 15:27:46(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Taplinm

Hi, we are a warehouse and distribution chain, with our own road fleet as well ,given road driving and MHE driving has potentially the same severity we were going down the route of a zero tolerance.

Seniors wanted 0mg, which I was not happy with given the Government road limits. We are after a number below the legal limit to get across the importance of driving whilst under the influence.

Regards

Roundtuit  
#5 Posted : 05 April 2021 17:35:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Personally I think if someone can impact the share price / operation of the company they should be held to significantly higher standards than those who function within the organisation so let them have Zero tolerance

Realistically what are you gaining from a tighter limit than that which those who drive to work are subject to?

Better to stick with limits that are universally understood and widely accepted by society particularly with a company I would suggest is likely to have regular need for non-directly employed drivers.

As to those who cite "safety critical" for me that would be a pilot or a ships officer, not an FLT or van driver.

Interstingly there is no limit or requirement for abstinence in medical surgeons.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Taplinm on 06/04/2021(UTC), Taplinm on 06/04/2021(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#6 Posted : 05 April 2021 17:35:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Personally I think if someone can impact the share price / operation of the company they should be held to significantly higher standards than those who function within the organisation so let them have Zero tolerance

Realistically what are you gaining from a tighter limit than that which those who drive to work are subject to?

Better to stick with limits that are universally understood and widely accepted by society particularly with a company I would suggest is likely to have regular need for non-directly employed drivers.

As to those who cite "safety critical" for me that would be a pilot or a ships officer, not an FLT or van driver.

Interstingly there is no limit or requirement for abstinence in medical surgeons.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Taplinm on 06/04/2021(UTC), Taplinm on 06/04/2021(UTC)
stevedm  
#7 Posted : 06 April 2021 06:49:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

I use 5 as the first action level and 8...there are lots more around it as some alcohol dependancy and substance abuse can be linked to serious mental health issues...so the supporting documentation talks about OH review and plans for support if necessary...there is also the option of going down the diciplinary route... only for those staff identifed in safety critical roles...all tests are chain of custody and independant, training for managers and supervisors in the signs and symptoms and how to report and manage the process...linked back to the risk impact assessment...

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Taplinm on 06/04/2021(UTC)
Alan Haynes  
#8 Posted : 06 April 2021 07:05:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Alan Haynes

If you do introduce testing scheme/programme make sure that Senior Management are tested first,and that staff know that they were.
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Taplinm on 06/04/2021(UTC)
AcornsConsult  
#9 Posted : 06 April 2021 07:07:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
AcornsConsult

What method/s are you thinking of using for screening and substantive testing?   You may find they will influence your levels.

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Taplinm on 06/04/2021(UTC)
achrn  
#10 Posted : 06 April 2021 08:11:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

I can't see any rational reason for picking something other than an existing limit - probably either an existing driving limit, or the rail limit.

I'm not sure where you're getting your rail limit.  Your figures for roads are micrograms alcohol per 100 millilitres of breath, but my understanding of the rail limit is 13 (RIS-8070-TOM, which I think you can get from https://www.rssb.co.uk, though you'll need to register an account).

Our limit is the rail limit.  About half our staff work on rail projects and theoretically could be asked to attend 'on or near the line' at short notice, so we consulted and agreed we would apply the same limit across the entire business.  Thus we have a policy of rail limit while at work, and zero consumption of alcoholic beverages while at work or on breaks (except when entertaining - then I can buy alcohol for myself or a colleague, but I can't claim for it on expenses).

For those who persist in believing all management are evil by definition, the same limit applies to every employee, contract staff, director and owner working in the business.  We do random sampling only of those in the rail parts of the business, however (but again, your chances of coming up at random are the same whether you're an apprentice or on the top board).  In principle, someone more senior could probably game the system by finding out when we are running the testing and being unavoidably out of the office that day, but I've never detected that.

Zero limits are difficult - what if it's mouthwash?  What if it was a lunchtime tiramisu?  Even if you do want zero, I think you'll need to set a deemed zero level.  Google tells me that USA 'zero' level for teen drivers is 10mg/100ml of blood.

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Taplinm on 06/04/2021(UTC)
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