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kellyfirth78  
#1 Posted : 08 April 2021 12:53:17(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
kellyfirth78

Can I please confirm that I am right in thinking I will need to RIDDOR an accident on my work site? Details as follows: 

I had an electrical engineer attending a public house to carry out several jobs, including tracing fault on external lighting to an out building of the premises. 

Our engineer had worked on site previously and was give access by the landlord. 

Tom traced the wires from the faulty lights and found that he required access to the loft area above the function room. This area is access from outside of the function room via an independent access ladder, which our engineer set up. The landlord ascended the ladder to remove his personal padlock which secured the loft space, where he kept personal belongings.

Tom continued with his work in tracing the fault, which took him inside the small room to the rear of the function room. While he was working, he heard a load bang and ran out to find the landlord, Steve, at the base of the ladder. It appeared that the landlord had been using Tom’s ladder to remove boxes from his loft space (unbeknown to Tom). He had then fallen from the loft space - it appears he “missed” the ladder and fell 10ft to the ground, head first. He was unconscious and his face appeared to be flattened on the side from the impact. 

Obviously, I am aware that he should not have left acces to his ladder while he was not present in the area. I am assuming that the use of the engineers ladder makes this a RIDDOR? 

peter gotch  
#2 Posted : 08 April 2021 14:06:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Kelly

On the assumption that the injury is "reportable" [which it might not be] you have to decide who the "responsible person" was as defined in RIDDOR Regulation 3:

Responsible person

3.—(1) In these Regulations, the “responsible person” is—

(a) in relation to an injury, death or dangerous occurrence reportable under regulation 4, 5, 6 or 7 or recordable under regulation 12(1)(b) involving—

(i) an employee, that employee’s employer; or

(ii) a person not at work or a self-employed person, or in relation to any other dangerous occurrence, the person who by means of their carrying on any undertaking was in control of the premises where the reportable or recordable incident happened, at the time it happened

On the basis of the narrative as you describe it, it would appear that the landlord remained in control of their pub and all "premises" therein, making places in the pub available for use by your engineer.

The parent legislation, the Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974 defines "plant" and "premises" in Section 53.....

  • “plant” includes any machinery, equipment or appliance;

  • “premises” includes any place and, in particular, includes—

    (a) any vehicle, vessel, aircraft or hovercraft,

    (b) any installation on land (including the foreshore and other land intermittently covered by water), any offshore installation, and any other installation (whether floating, or resting on the seabed or the subsoil thereof, or resting on other land covered with water or the subsoil thereof), and

    (c) any tent or moveable structure;

My interpretation is that the engineer's ladder is "plant" rather than "premises". The ladder is placed within the "premises".

It would be different if e.g. the landlord handed over part of the pub into the control of your engineer, e.g. with a barrier to indicate the area temporarily in the control of your organisation [i.e. your engineer], with you [your engineer] having authority to decide who could and could not enter that area.

But on the basis of my reading of your narrative that has not happened and whoever was in control of the pub [i.e. landlord or their employer] would be the responsible person either as their employer [Reg 3(1)(a)] or if they are self-employed OR if someone argued that they were "not in the course of their employment" at the time of the accident [e.g. if rhe removal of boxes was nothing to do with "work"] as the person in "control of the premises" [Reg 3(1)(b)].

Whether your engineer should have been in control of the area where the accident occurred is a different question! Possibly, but only possibly. You would NOT usually expect each and every area in which your engineer to be working to be handed over to them and as for the area where the accident occurred, the landlord was the keyholder.

Brian Hagyard  
#3 Posted : 08 April 2021 14:58:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Brian Hagyard

Im in two minds about this one.As Peter says

was in control of the premises where the reportable or recordable incident happened, at the time it happened

By placing the ladder in the location was the enginear in control of that part of the premises?

A Kurdziel  
#4 Posted : 08 April 2021 15:09:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Nasty accident. I am assuming that the landlord is now off work.  Does he have a tenancy or  is he simply a manager? If he is a manger then the pub company will want to know why he is not at work and they will follow up. My gut feeling is that as it happened  on their premises to one of their employees, they need to do the reporting.

If he is the tenant and therefore self-employed in theory, he should also report but  I suspect he might rather not.

There is nothing stopping you doing the  RIDDOR  but remember a RIDDOR is not an admission of liability or culpability; it is just the recording and reporting of an incident.

Dazzling Puddock  
#5 Posted : 08 April 2021 16:49:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Dazzling Puddock

This may be reportable, but not by you or your company.   The building was never your site, your sparkie was working there on a peripatetic basis so the landlord remained in control.

The accident will probably be classed as non work related anyway as you say the landlord was moving personal belongings so not in connection with work.

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