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fattyfish  
#1 Posted : 26 November 2015 10:36:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
fattyfish

Hi all,
I'm looking for advice, I've checked the forum but only seems to be old posts (2-3 years) so wondering if anything more up to date is available?

Our company is a large online sales company specialising in flooring. We have our own site with 7 warehouses, a fleet of LGvs, articulated vehicles doing deliveries, machine plant for cutting carpets etc and fork lift trucks.

At our last H&S meeting one of the members raised a concern regarding suspicious behaviour of certain staff and "guessing" drugs? Cannabis and similar. This then raised comments about random testing? Now I'm guessing this can turn out to be a complete mine field. We already have in our company policy that we do not tolerate alcohol or drug use etc, but in reality this is just a statement, should we be pushing this statement by way of random testing?

There was a suggestion that we start by sending a memo stating that random testing is to be implemented (hopefully this may act as a deterrent) and then test in the case of an accident, but in the case of an accident caused by drink or drugs then its too late, right?

So my questions are:
Has anyone used any of the available testing kits either drink or drugs or both?
If we were to do a random test, and someone tested positive "by the kit" could we then start disciplinary procedures? In the case of a positive could we then send samples to a lab for further investigation that would then lead to dismissal if the lab test came back positive?

I know that in the past I worked as a HGV driver and the company introduced random alcohol tests by way of a button that was pressed by all drivers as they arrived at the start of the shift and the button would then illuminate a green or red light, if you got a red you got tested? A simple procedure that kept it random!

Thanks in advance for any advice. Andy
Kate  
#2 Posted : 26 November 2015 10:55:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

There are two testing regimes that can be adopted - random testing and for-cause testing. You need to be clear about which you are thinking about.

Random testing means testing staff purely at random. You have to show that it really is random and you are not picking on individuals or leaving some people out. Testing someone after an accident is not random testing.

For-cause testing means that when you have reasonable suspicions (because of an accident or behaviour) you test.

Either way you need to tread very carefully, make very clear just what you are going to do and how you are going to do it and what the consequences may be, and consult the workforce thoroughly before proceeding. Claiming you are going to do random testing without thinking it through will only lead to trouble.

There are huge HR issues involved and I suggest getting HR to lead on this.
johnmurray  
#3 Posted : 26 November 2015 11:07:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

"So the biggest criticism of any form of drug-testing is that it does not tell an employer what they want to know, which is whether someone is, or was, under the influence of drugs while at work. It will, at best, tell you that the person is likely to have consumed a particular drug in the recent past"

"That does not mean that drug-testing accurately indicates that a person has taken an illegal drug. In some cases, the metabolites of the drugs detected are the same, or similar, to drugs used in prescription or even over the counter medication. That means that a person can be given a positive result simply because they have taken a flu remedy"

Not that the companies doing the testing will necessarily tell you that.

https://www.tuc.org.uk/w...s/drug-testing-workplace

.....let me see random testing of the management, then I'll believe it is of use.
jwk  
#4 Posted : 26 November 2015 11:21:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Originally Posted by: JohnMurray.....let me see random testing of the management, then I' Go to Quoted Post

Oh for a 'like' button!

John
johnmurray  
#5 Posted : 26 November 2015 11:33:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

jwk wrote:
Originally Posted by: JohnMurray.....let me see random testing of the management, then I' Go to Quoted Post

Oh for a 'like' button!

John



thankyou.
I "attended" an "employment interview", about 9 years ago, in a small [read miniscule] "company".
The interviewer was the boss (who was pretty much the workforce as well), and he was inhaling deeply at a rather long cigarette as I walked in.
I doubt I would have passed a drug test for a while afterwards. I declined to stay there, never mind the interview.
In another I was working well down south, in an area where vowels are drawn out several miles, and the "boss", while I was installing a fire escape, was in the bar of the hotel it was being installed for. When it was finished he was in a state that can be best described as "plastered".
He was driving. He stayed at the hotel, and gave me £50 to take a train home. (I went the other way and stayed at Brighton a few days and got another job soon after)
jodieclark1510  
#6 Posted : 26 November 2015 14:05:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jodieclark1510

At a previous employers we had random property and alcohol checks. This was done by having a button with a red and green light which randomly changed when pressed as people walked out of the door. The staff checking were also included in this process- if anything was a concern, it went to the line manager and HR.
IanDakin  
#7 Posted : 26 November 2015 15:40:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
IanDakin

Hi

There are safety aspects here, and you need to lead on that, but the HR/Legal Department need to make sure that the policy and the possible consultation periods a re water tight.

There is a guidance booklet from the HSE as well that you can download from here.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg91.htm

Ian
fscott  
#8 Posted : 30 November 2015 10:19:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
fscott

I was previously involved in the implementation of drugs and alcohol testing procedures at a previous employers and we used the services of Synergy Health to assist us with the entire process from the development of policy/procedures, awareness training for management plus training for selected individuals in carrying out the actual testing in-house, purchase/calibration of testing equipment and laboratory analysis as required. We tested on pre-employment and for cause basis (e.g. following an accident or with reasonable suspicion circumstances verified by at least two individuals). We didn't do random checks simply because some of our management couldn't get there heads around the concept of 'random'.

Our testing procedures used a Drager AT-6810 Breathalyser which required 6 monthly calibration and DrugCheck® Integrated Cups for the drugs testing which produced a negative or non-negative result within a matter or minutes; a non-negative result was required to be sent for lab anaylsis to ensure we had a legally defensible result to base our next action on. We never took any action based on the instant test kits other than to suspend pending lab results.

The process allowed for the declaration of medications (both prescribed and over the counter) prior to giving samples as some basic cold/flu/painkiller medications can produce a non-negative result with the integrated cups method; lab analysis would then confirm that the test was positive but consistent with declared medications or otherwise.

As others have said there are also legal/HR implications, even more so if you happen to be unionised, so get everyone one on board at the earliest possible stage.

This document from Synergy might give you some food for thought: http://www.synergyhealth...cification_manual_13.pdf

For the record I have no affiliation with Synergy Health other than a satisfied customer.

If you wish to contact me by PM with any questions I be happy to share my experiences further.
achrn  
#9 Posted : 30 November 2015 12:26:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

JohnMurray wrote:

.....let me see random testing of the management, then I'll believe it is of use.


FWIW, our random testing process is that we provide a list of staff numbers to the test company and they pick who to test from the numbers (they don't get to see names or job titles). The list of staff numbers we provide is everyone except secretarial staff that never leave the office. The MD has never come up for testing, but other top-level board members have.
fattyfish  
#10 Posted : 03 December 2015 09:34:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
fattyfish

Hi All,
Thank you for your comments and advice. I knew this would be a can of worms that needed a lot of thought and energy to put in place.
Thanks to all that sent me a PM and the download links to more information.
Now that I am armed with this information, it can now be raised again at the next meeting and decide a plan from there!
Thanks Again
Glentarn  
#11 Posted : 22 August 2016 16:36:53(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Glentarn

There is an assumption in this chain that any activity to address drugs in the workplace has to include testing. HSE, TUC and the Office of the Information Commissioner have all stated that testing is likely only to be warranted based on risk assessment. Recent data from the crime survey shows that something approaching 20% of all drug abuse is substances such as former legal highs and volatiles which testing will not identify. Sensible risk assessment using the available data, and mitigation involving a training/awareness programme (which could include testing based on high impact activities) is the way forward. This reduces the risk of an accident where drugs (or alcohol) are a causal factor, and provides the employer with mitigation if an incident does occur. The Testing companies will always suggest that the process must include testing - its their job!
Roundtuit  
#12 Posted : 22 August 2016 20:47:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Science 101 - all tests are conducted to prove a theorey. If the result does not match the theorey the test was a failure.

So we have just finished the Olympic games in Rio. The USA is top of the medal table and despite one or two repeat offenders are not tarred with the doping brush which decimated the Russian representation.

Yet in the US they routinely use growth hormone in livestock farming (one of the areas of contention in TTIP) but doping does not seem to detect this?

This being the same continent concerned about BPA transfer from an infants plastic formula bottle?

Still relevant to the OP - seen quite a few well balanced people turn in to raging temper problems as they discover steroids at the gym.
Roundtuit  
#13 Posted : 22 August 2016 20:47:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Science 101 - all tests are conducted to prove a theorey. If the result does not match the theorey the test was a failure.

So we have just finished the Olympic games in Rio. The USA is top of the medal table and despite one or two repeat offenders are not tarred with the doping brush which decimated the Russian representation.

Yet in the US they routinely use growth hormone in livestock farming (one of the areas of contention in TTIP) but doping does not seem to detect this?

This being the same continent concerned about BPA transfer from an infants plastic formula bottle?

Still relevant to the OP - seen quite a few well balanced people turn in to raging temper problems as they discover steroids at the gym.
Roundtuit  
#14 Posted : 30 December 2024 11:46:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

We really dont appreciate exhumation of old posts to place advertisements Vennerse - please read the forum rules. Meanwhile REPORTED

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
peter gotch on 30/12/2024(UTC), peter gotch on 30/12/2024(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#15 Posted : 30 December 2024 11:46:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

We really dont appreciate exhumation of old posts to place advertisements Vennerse - please read the forum rules. Meanwhile REPORTED

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
peter gotch on 30/12/2024(UTC), peter gotch on 30/12/2024(UTC)
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