Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Bennett31384  
#1 Posted : 20 January 2025 12:44:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Bennett31384

Hi IOSH members,

Does anyone work for the AA, RAC, auto windscreens, any self employed mobile mechanics? Or have any knowledge of repairing vehicles in the street?

I work for an organisation spread across Europe. We are looking to complete repairs to our fleet of micromobility vehicles (e bikes and e scooters) in the street or from vans, or on foot. 

What I am looking for:

  • Is it legal to complete repairs in the street? (Auto windscreen etc do)
  • What limitations are there, emergencies only? Time limits?
  • Do you need a permit?
  • If you complete these on private ground, e.g. agreeing supermarket carpark, can you do what you like?
  • Is there particular regulation in the UK which covers this?
  • Is this derived from an EU directive which I can search to find the relevant regulation in other european countries?

Any help, guidance or resources would be appreciated.

Thanks

Joe

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 20 January 2025 13:27:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

I am going to guess that you are making a rather broad ask when the answer will be on a local authority basis.

e-scooters are currently illegal on the UK public highway EXCEPT where part of an official trial so in any council area not running sanctioned trials the e-scooters would be subject to seizure.

You really need to talk to the local authority as to what they do or do not permit - I doubt you would be allowed to park a van on a bus-lane / red-route / yellow lines or any other location deemed inappropriate by the highway code. The devices you are talking about can be readily moved.

Vehicle breakdown services attempt street repairs to get vehicles moving but may tow to a safer location.

Windscreen replacements will not be conducted in live lanes of major routes - genrally in quieter residential streets or in car parks.

You then have to consider that the councils enforcement organisations may consider any tool or component placed on the ground to be littering.

You also need to think that materials such as chain lubricants & oils or battery acids should be prevented from entering surface waters i.e. no spillage to ground.

You would be much safer taking them back to a workshop for repair OR carry significant public liability insurance for when those trip accidents happen if you have bits all over a pavement.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
peter gotch on 20/01/2025(UTC), peter gotch on 20/01/2025(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 20 January 2025 13:27:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

I am going to guess that you are making a rather broad ask when the answer will be on a local authority basis.

e-scooters are currently illegal on the UK public highway EXCEPT where part of an official trial so in any council area not running sanctioned trials the e-scooters would be subject to seizure.

You really need to talk to the local authority as to what they do or do not permit - I doubt you would be allowed to park a van on a bus-lane / red-route / yellow lines or any other location deemed inappropriate by the highway code. The devices you are talking about can be readily moved.

Vehicle breakdown services attempt street repairs to get vehicles moving but may tow to a safer location.

Windscreen replacements will not be conducted in live lanes of major routes - genrally in quieter residential streets or in car parks.

You then have to consider that the councils enforcement organisations may consider any tool or component placed on the ground to be littering.

You also need to think that materials such as chain lubricants & oils or battery acids should be prevented from entering surface waters i.e. no spillage to ground.

You would be much safer taking them back to a workshop for repair OR carry significant public liability insurance for when those trip accidents happen if you have bits all over a pavement.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
peter gotch on 20/01/2025(UTC), peter gotch on 20/01/2025(UTC)
Bennett31384  
#4 Posted : 20 January 2025 14:13:15(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Bennett31384

Hi thanks for the information,

Yes we are part of legitimate council trials across the UK. I take on board all of your points, and of course for the safety of personnnel. We would not think of repairing in or near the carriage way, blocking routes with vans, manageing chemicals and the environmental impact etc

Agreed it is better to repair in a fixed location where more controls can be put in place, but the transport costs can be significant in comparison to revenue. The world of micromobility has very tight margins and most micromobility operators do not turn a profit yet. So we are investigating the legality to repair in the field, to improve profotability,hence my question.

Is it your belief this is locally governed by councils? Is there no over arching rules fromm central government. This is the piece I am really trying to find out. If for eaxmple this was dervived from an EU directive then I can start to see how this was implemented in the other countries across Europe.

Any other thoughts?

846parkers  
#5 Posted : 20 January 2025 14:28:02(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
846parkers

Originally Posted by: Bennett31384 Go to Quoted Post

Hi thanks for the information,

Yes we are part of legitimate council trials across the UK. I take on board all of your points, and of course for the safety of personnnel. We would not think of repairing in or near the carriage way, blocking routes with vans, manageing chemicals and the environmental impact etc

Agreed it is better to repair in a fixed location where more controls can be put in place, but the transport costs can be significant in comparison to revenue. The world of micromobility has very tight margins and most micromobility operators do not turn a profit yet. So we are investigating the legality to repair in the field, to improve profotability,hence my question.

Is it your belief this is locally governed by councils? Is there no over arching rules fromm central government. This is the piece I am really trying to find out. If for eaxmple this was dervived from an EU directive then I can start to see how this was implemented in the other countries across Europe.

Any other thoughts?

Have you checked out the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005?

Part 2 Section 4 states:

Repairing vehicles on a road

(1)A person who carries out restricted works on a motor vehicle on a road is guilty of an offence, subject as follows.

(2)For the purposes of this section “restricted works” means—

(a)works for the repair, maintenance, servicing, improvement or dismantling of a motor vehicle or of any part of or accessory to a motor vehicle;

(b)works for the installation, replacement or renewal of any such part or accessory.

(3)A person is not to be convicted of an offence under this section in relation to any works if he proves to the satisfaction of the court that the works were not carried out—

(a)in the course of, or for the purposes of, a business of carrying out restricted works; or

(b)for gain or reward.

(4)Subsection (3) does not apply where the carrying out of the works gave reasonable cause for annoyance to persons in the vicinity.

(5)A person is also not to be convicted of an offence under this section in relation to any works if he proves to the satisfaction of the court that the works carried out were works of repair which—

(a)arose from an accident or breakdown in circumstances where repairs on the spot or elsewhere on the road were necessary; and

(b)were carried out within 72 hours of the accident or breakdown or were within that period authorised to be carried out at a later time by the local authority for the area.

(6)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale.

Not sure if vehicles would come under this act, but worth checking.

thanks 3 users thanked 846parkers for this useful post.
Roundtuit on 20/01/2025(UTC), peter gotch on 20/01/2025(UTC), Bennett31384 on 27/01/2025(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#6 Posted : 20 January 2025 14:50:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I suspect in practical terms it depends on what you are actually doing. I have had a tow bar fitted to my car when it was  parked outside the house. The whole process took less that an hour and did not disrupt the traffic flow. If on the other hand this was a full overhaul taking several hours and blocking the street someone would report it and the authorities  could find some regulation or other that had been breached.  From what you are saying your mechanics are visiting peoples homes and fixing scooters. If there is no driveway available, then by necessity you might have to do the job on the public highway. If this is a one off then nothing would happen but if you do regularly outside a particular address you would certainly attract attention from someone.

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
Bennett31384 on 27/01/2025(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#7 Posted : 20 January 2025 16:01:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: 846parkers Go to Quoted Post
Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005?

That helps explain the responses on several Police force web sites about conducting vehicle repairs in the street.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Bennett31384 on 27/01/2025(UTC), Bennett31384 on 27/01/2025(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#8 Posted : 20 January 2025 16:01:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: 846parkers Go to Quoted Post
Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005?

That helps explain the responses on several Police force web sites about conducting vehicle repairs in the street.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Bennett31384 on 27/01/2025(UTC), Bennett31384 on 27/01/2025(UTC)
toe  
#9 Posted : 21 January 2025 09:38:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

The Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005, a key piece of legislation, sets out various provisions aimed at improving the local environment and quality of life. In this context, I'm just playing devil's advocate here and thinking about the requirement to satisfy the court.

It's unequivocal that ‘mechanically powered bikes and scooters’ fall under the legal definition of a ‘motor vehicle’ as per the Refuse Disposal (Amenity) Act 1978.

However, the interpretation of road does not include a footpath – Road (Scotland) Act 1984 (used because it has a clear definition). Therefore, the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005 may not apply if the bikes and scooters are repaired on the pavement.

In addition, the court may be convinced that the work is to repair broken-down equipment and, therefore, the work carried out is necessary. The court may also be convinced that you are acting in the interest of public safety, and if the court imposed restrictions on the repairs, public safety could be compromised (clutching at straws on this last point, though).

Edited by user 21 January 2025 09:46:28(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 2 users thanked toe for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 21/01/2025(UTC), Bennett31384 on 27/01/2025(UTC)
toe  
#10 Posted : 21 January 2025 11:25:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

Regarding the legal aspect of the question, I’m unsure if it's helpful or not.

SMART repairs involve a mobile body repairer typically carrying out minor paint and body repairs to vehicles on the street. The HSE has issued guidance on this activity, and although the guidance focuses on chemical safety, it does mention spraying outdoors, an indication that the regulators acknowledge street repairs.

Your question: - If you complete these on private ground, e.g. agreeing supermarket carpark, can you do what you like?

Well, you would still need to work under the HSAWA and remember your duties to others who may be affected by your work activities.

thanks 1 user thanked toe for this useful post.
Bennett31384 on 27/01/2025(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#11 Posted : 21 January 2025 13:07:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

To be realistic prosecution is a long way down the line. Looking at the Act in question it does not allow for the imposition of administrative fines only prosecution in the courts. That is an expensive process which the regulators will not want to follow unless it is a blatant breach eg someone running a vehicle repair business on the street outside their property. Even then, they would probably send at least one warning letter before going to court.  They won’t bother with an occasional repair in the street.

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
Bennett31384 on 27/01/2025(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#12 Posted : 21 January 2025 13:45:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post
They won’t bother with an occasional repair in the street.

In my closest city the council enforcers issue fines for dropping crumbs from pies and sandwiches - a pile of tools and spares would be their record book wet dream.

From one London borough: In general, any form of selling of goods or the provision of services taking place in the street or on the public highway, or up to 7 metres distance from the highway, will require a licence. The public highway counts as the road and pavement.

https://www.merton.gov.uk/business-and-consumers/street-trading/frequently-asked-questions#:~:text=In%20general%2C%20any%20form%20of,as%20the%20road%20and%20pavement.

Starts getting quite expensive when you add up all those local authorities desparate for cash.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Bennett31384 on 27/01/2025(UTC), Bennett31384 on 27/01/2025(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#13 Posted : 21 January 2025 13:45:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post
They won’t bother with an occasional repair in the street.

In my closest city the council enforcers issue fines for dropping crumbs from pies and sandwiches - a pile of tools and spares would be their record book wet dream.

From one London borough: In general, any form of selling of goods or the provision of services taking place in the street or on the public highway, or up to 7 metres distance from the highway, will require a licence. The public highway counts as the road and pavement.

https://www.merton.gov.uk/business-and-consumers/street-trading/frequently-asked-questions#:~:text=In%20general%2C%20any%20form%20of,as%20the%20road%20and%20pavement.

Starts getting quite expensive when you add up all those local authorities desparate for cash.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Bennett31384 on 27/01/2025(UTC), Bennett31384 on 27/01/2025(UTC)
peter gotch  
#14 Posted : 21 January 2025 14:46:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Joe

This is one of those scenarios where the question is always going to be simpler than the answer, at least in part as you are dealing with multiple pieces of legislation that overlap to an extent and with multiple enforcing authorities, who would include the Police, the local authority (and possibly more than one part of that authority) and the HSE

I would also note that depending on the legislation, the footway may or may not be part of the road/highway. There are plenty of references in legislation to the "pavement" - that is the way any part of the road has been constructed and NOT just the footway! So, as example if someone is complaining about a pothole in a live carriageway, they are referring to a defect in the "pavement".

I guess that the likes of the AA and RAC have well established protocols that address all the legals. 

If you get to some other operators, particularly those who subcontract the work to e.g. self-employed people, then whatever protocols might in theory be in place might be ignored, in part or full, when it comes to the person doing the job on (or off) site......

......a bit like if you order something online for delivery by some well known company, or ring for a home pizza, the chances are that the company that you are buying from or who is contracted to do the delivery probably says all the right things, but when it comes to the crunch the person ACTUALLY delivering your pizza ignores the Highway Code if that gets them from A to B a bit quicker.

I imagine there is some forum where the key players in this type of work all get together and discuss different methods of ensuring an adequate level of H&S but I wouldn't know where to point you.

However, that you are participating in sanctioned trials probably means that your organisation has access to some sources of advice in e.g. local authorities.

thanks 1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
Bennett31384 on 27/01/2025(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#15 Posted : 22 January 2025 10:04:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

“In my closest city the council enforcers issue fines for dropping crumbs from pies and sandwiches”, is true but those are administrative fines. A council employee or a more likely a contractor for the council spot an infringement and then take your details and a letter appears demanding that you pay x amount of money or half if you it to this address within a week. The small print says you can appeal this notice, but most people don’t bother. This is now a significant source of council income in some places. The legislation relating to car repairs involves going to court which is expensive  so the council doing bother. Where I work electric scooters are banned on public roads(as they are in most parts of the country) so why do I have sidestep  lunatics on these vehicles when I walk to work? Cos the council choses not to enforce the appropriate law.

 

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
Bennett31384 on 27/01/2025(UTC)
Bennett31384  
#16 Posted : 27 January 2025 09:41:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Bennett31384

Thank you everyone for your input, I will have a look inot the references given. 

Appreciate all the help

thanks 1 user thanked Bennett31384 for this useful post.
peter gotch on 27/01/2025(UTC)
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.