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Kate  
#1 Posted : 28 March 2025 16:11:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

For reasons I don't want to go in to, I would like to identify a legal basis for business premises to have accurate information about the site to give to emergency services. I can give plenty of justifications for doing this but haven't located a convincing legal one.

Any suggestions please?
Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 28 March 2025 16:49:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

At a sub COMAH site we had an information pack at the door for the Fire Brigade showing the site plan, main bulk storage tanks (capacity content and hazard code), principal storage areas, office layout diagrams and a site drainage schematic (so they could see where fire run off water would head).

Also included was an emergency telephone list - Gas, Electric, Water, EA, local hospital etc. on the presumption if the power was out we would not be looking these up on the internet.

It also include senior staff numbers and the insurance details as part of the incident management response measures.

Good emergency planning to assist those unfamiliar with your premises shouldn't need a regulatory hammer.

Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 28 March 2025 16:49:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

At a sub COMAH site we had an information pack at the door for the Fire Brigade showing the site plan, main bulk storage tanks (capacity content and hazard code), principal storage areas, office layout diagrams and a site drainage schematic (so they could see where fire run off water would head).

Also included was an emergency telephone list - Gas, Electric, Water, EA, local hospital etc. on the presumption if the power was out we would not be looking these up on the internet.

It also include senior staff numbers and the insurance details as part of the incident management response measures.

Good emergency planning to assist those unfamiliar with your premises shouldn't need a regulatory hammer.

peter gotch  
#4 Posted : 28 March 2025 17:52:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Kate

I think the legal basis starts with your site's "neighbour" in this case Fire and Rescue.

Donoghue v Stevenson

Hence, you have to do what is reasonable to protect someone who could be harmed by the conduct of your operations.

Which duty of care under civil law you could then interpret as extending to your duty under Section 3 of HSWA.

I cannot think of anything more specific except when you hit a threshold so as to e.g. come within the scope of COMAH.

One parallel would be the new building legislation that has been made (or is in the pipeline)

Just because there is an 18 metre / 7 storeys "rule" doesn't suddently mean that those designimg, constructing,, maintaining and operating lower buildings don't have a duty of care - but rather that what is needed is not set out in tablets of stone.

For perspective when I worked for HSE and nobody had thought about some Regulations that would end up with the abbreviation CDM, I didn't think that meant that those at the top of the supply chain didn't have duties under HSWA.

So, when the scaffolder fell through a fragile roof light, not only did their employer and the Main Contractor end up in Court, but so did the Client. I chose Section 4, these days HSE would probably opt for Section 3.

There are explicit duties, but there are also implicit duties.

firesafety101  
#5 Posted : 29 March 2025 11:51:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Whenever I made a Construction Phase Plan I always included emergency numbers i.e. nearest A&E hospital and walk in, local fire station for advice, Gas and Electricity emergency numbers and others I cannot remember now.

Some of those were included in the Pre construction information, others I searched for myself.

Don't know if anyone read or even looked for them but they were there.

Messey  
#6 Posted : 29 March 2025 14:39:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Messey

Article 16 (2) refers to making info available to emergency services where dangerous substances are involved

thanks 2 users thanked Messey for this useful post.
peter gotch on 29/03/2025(UTC), Kate on 29/03/2025(UTC)
Messey  
#7 Posted : 29 March 2025 14:43:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Messey

..... Fire Safety Order 2005

Ian Bell2  
#8 Posted : 29 March 2025 15:46:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

Dangerous Substances and Explosive Atmospheres Regs (DSEAR) Reg 8 Arrangements to deal with accidents, incidents and emergency 

(2) Subject to paragraph (4), the employer shall ensure that information on the matters referred to in paragraph (1)(a), (c) to (e) and the information required by paragraph 1(b) is – (a) made available to relevant accident and emergency services to enable those services, whether internal or external to the workplace, to prepare their own response procedures and precautionary measures; 

i.e. tell the fire service what flammables etc you have on the premises I would also include the location of gas isolation/shut off  valve if you have a natural gas service piped into/onto your factory/building

thanks 1 user thanked Ian Bell2 for this useful post.
Kate on 29/03/2025(UTC)
stevedm  
#9 Posted : 31 March 2025 06:23:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

apart from those already mentioned there are parts noted in the Buildings Regs Part b - requriment for clear documentation for emergency services...SEVESO and CoMAH require it along with RRFSO Article 15 accurate information for emergency services...along with more general duty of care...would be interested in the cultural question that arose to challenge the provision?

thanks 1 user thanked stevedm for this useful post.
Kate on 31/03/2025(UTC)
Kate  
#10 Posted : 31 March 2025 07:51:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Thanks to everyone who has answered and yes, as I said, I do know the non-legal justifications and I don't want to go in to my reasons for asking.  I will only say that my reasons for asking are not necessarily what you may be assuming.

peter gotch  
#11 Posted : 31 March 2025 10:22:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Morning Kate

That was one of those very enigmatic comments!

Like the spoiler for the next must-see drama.

P

Kate  
#12 Posted : 31 March 2025 12:19:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

I'll save it for my memoirs - "My Life Among Muppets".

thanks 1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
peter gotch on 31/03/2025(UTC)
firesafety101  
#13 Posted : 01 April 2025 11:05:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

I try not to Assume as it makes an ASS of ME and U ha ha.

However it does make sense to make people aware of the emergency numbers in my humble opinion.

rob clarke  
#14 Posted : 01 April 2025 11:12:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
rob clarke

HASWA Section 4 - Duties of people concerned with premesis to non-employees on site seems to cover it nicely.

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