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Mark-W  
#1 Posted : 08 September 2023 10:18:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Mark-W

I have a client who is building a distillery from the ground up on a brown field site. Cureently all the buildings are watertight, they do not have mains electric in all of the buildings but do have mainds potable water into the main building. We have had a welfare cabin and porta loos on site for the construction phase, when there were lots of workers on site. We are now in the inbetween phase where there is no real construction work being conducted, but were awaiting our M&E contractor to start the fit out, but that is several months away. We have 2 blokes on site doing odd jobs, bit of painting, bit of landscaping and general works. We can build the welfare into 1 of the office rooms but there are no toilets onsite. Now the issue we have is the use of the portaloos. I did a quick Q7A with the workers and they use the portaloos for urinating but not defacating in. THe supplier is very hit and miss with their emptying schedule, always full of excuses, so instead of weekly emptying, it could be 2-3 weeks. We have the main business office 250m away from the construction site with hot & cold running water and toilets, there are public toilets 75m from the site, across the carpark and there is a cafe the 2 workers visit every day. Would it be acceptable to dispense with the portaloos and utilise the facilities in either the office, public or cafe toilets? I've looked at the HSE website but surprisingly they do not specify a distance, just some vague statement about being mindful of the distance the workers have to travel. Does anyone have experience of a similar situation?

peter gotch  
#2 Posted : 08 September 2023 13:41:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Mark

HSE used to have specific guidance about welfare on "transient" construction sites, not identical but comparable to what you are describing and all about making sure that adequate facilities are accessible in a relatively short time span whether access is by foot or vehicle.

Now the guidance is a bit thinner and at Provision of welfare facilities during construction work (hse.gov.uk)

I suppose one of the QQ is why they don't just sort out the programme and get the permanent facilities up and runinng? - even if that might be with a temporary power supply, and possibly even temporary arrangements for provision of potable water to the point of use and the removal of sewage to ditto.

There's a lot of £££ being invested in this project, so perhaps one or two of those pounds could be diverted to treating a couple of "blokes on site doing odd jobs" with a little more respect.

Edited by user 08 September 2023 13:42:02(UTC)  | Reason: Typo

thanks 2 users thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
Mark-W on 18/09/2023(UTC), WatsonD on 16/05/2025(UTC)
Mark-W  
#3 Posted : 18 September 2023 07:06:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Mark-W

Thankls Peter for the comprehansive answer.

It was my recomendation to put in temp facilities. 

Roundtuit  
#4 Posted : 16 May 2025 10:26:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

TomBrooks REPORTED - "hidden" hyperlink

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
peter gotch on 16/05/2025(UTC), peter gotch on 16/05/2025(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#5 Posted : 16 May 2025 10:26:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

TomBrooks REPORTED - "hidden" hyperlink

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
peter gotch on 16/05/2025(UTC), peter gotch on 16/05/2025(UTC)
peter gotch  
#6 Posted : 16 May 2025 10:41:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Roundtuir, well spotted, I suspect that that hyperlink was so well hiddent that most human readers wouldn't even have seen it, let alone click on it!!

thunderchild  
#7 Posted : 16 May 2025 10:50:12(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
thunderchild

Originally Posted by: peter gotch Go to Quoted Post

Hi Roundtuir, well spotted, I suspect that that hyperlink was so well hiddent that most human readers wouldn't even have seen it, let alone click on it!!

Took me 2 attempts to find it! lol

thanks 1 user thanked thunderchild for this useful post.
peter gotch on 16/05/2025(UTC)
peter gotch  
#8 Posted : 16 May 2025 16:24:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi thunderchild

Me too.

Roundtuit is VERY good at spotting these sneaky hidden links!

If IOSH get round to recruting a new panel of Moderators (who each meet the person criteria in the Forum Rules) then they should ask Roundtuit whether they might wish to volunteer. 

Possibly offering them life time Membership for free might help.

Mark-W  
#9 Posted : 20 May 2025 14:46:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Mark-W

Thought for a minute that someone had responded with more advice.

But as it now sits, the whole project has ground to a halt. They have 3 watertight buildings, a lot of the internal infrastructure in, but nothing is connected. As far as I'm aware there is no staff onsite.

As a side question, I have drifted away from this client, but neither party has formally declared an end to the business relationship, it's been well over 18 months since I've visited site.

As far as I'm concerned I am no longer their H&S competent person. They have not booked me to visit site inline with the written agreement with regards to frequency of visits.

If they started back up, without my knowledge, would I still be liable? or would the fact that they have broken the visit agreement, it was only an email chain, nothing formal mean that the working relationship is now ended?

Roundtuit  
#10 Posted : 20 May 2025 15:15:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

I would send either an email or recorded delivery letter "For the avoidance of doubt".

It then draws a line under matters and should include:

- your last date of site attendance / date of your last report

- the last date they paid you any monies

and confirming that in the interim you have had no approach to conduct any further visits in accordance with the documented schedule.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
peter gotch on 20/05/2025(UTC), peter gotch on 20/05/2025(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#11 Posted : 20 May 2025 15:15:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

I would send either an email or recorded delivery letter "For the avoidance of doubt".

It then draws a line under matters and should include:

- your last date of site attendance / date of your last report

- the last date they paid you any monies

and confirming that in the interim you have had no approach to conduct any further visits in accordance with the documented schedule.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
peter gotch on 20/05/2025(UTC), peter gotch on 20/05/2025(UTC)
peter gotch  
#12 Posted : 20 May 2025 15:40:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Mark

Be careful in using words such as "formal". A legally binding Contract could be created by exchange of words and based on what you have written on a current thread on the Careers Forum, your Contracts are probably usually agreed by exchange of emails.

So, you set out your "Conditions of Contract" even if you don't use such termnology, and the Client agrees to what you have offered. Ergo a Contract exists. 

Now, it may be that BOTH Parties are in breach of said Contract. You said how often you would visit, but appearently have not followed up on the letter of what you offered - as you THINK that the Client didn't want the visit schedule to be continued. Whether the Client has been in breach of Contract depends rather on exactly what you have said in terms of what THEY should do to get you visiting as per your proposal.

So, I think you would be wise to take action such as suggested by Roundtuit, even though I think the chances of you being held to account - even to a minimal proportion - if things go wrong so long after your last visit are extremely low even if you do not to make it clear that as far as you are concerned the Contract is at an end.

Given that it is quite possible that there have been personnel changes at the Client end, I would go for a letter rather than email that might not reach the intended destination even if you do not get a meesage saying that your email has failed.

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