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Kate  
#1 Posted : 23 June 2025 18:53:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Carbon dioxide doesn't just displace oxygen; it is also toxic in itself. 

You cannot see carbon dioxide in its gaseous form.  What you see in a cloud is droplets of liquid.  The gas that then evaporates off them is invisible.  This is similar to the 'steam' you see from a kettle, which is not gaseeous water but water droplets; water vapour (the gaseous form of water) is likewise invisible.

It is possible to measure carbon dioxide levels (and indeed oxygen levels) in the air and to have an alarm linked to the measurement to trigger evacuation before a dangerous level is reached.

I don't quite understand what is the process that you are doing and how it relates to the carbon dioxide transfer.

Kate  
#2 Posted : 24 June 2025 09:38:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

I feel I've been deceived, so I'm not inclined to discuss any further.

thanks 1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
peter gotch on 24/06/2025(UTC)
peter gotch  
#3 Posted : 24 June 2025 10:24:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Kate, to be honest, I am completely puzzled as the orginal post setting out the question which you answered seems to have been deleted so it's not clear what Paul's question was.

Paul, that said, I think if you have been asked to respond to a question in advance of an interview, the interviewers probably want you to do some homework and not just parrot what people might offer up on a chat forum.

Further, if the interviewers have any competence, then they should be able to easily root out any hint of plagiarism via some secondary questions to let you explain how you have come to your thinking.

Of course, there is nothing wrong with doing some networking and perhaps your original thread showed that you HAD been thinking about the answer for yourself. But, deletion of your initial posting makes it look like something rather different had been put up for others to answer.

thanks 1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
Kate on 24/06/2025(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#4 Posted : 24 June 2025 10:37:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: Westwick27925 Go to Quoted Post
Thank you for the response Kate, It's an interview scenario I have been given, just trying to get to grips with the context. May I email it to you? My contact details are paul.westwick@dhl.com 

Carbon dioxide doesn't just displace oxygen; it is also toxic in itself. 

You cannot see carbon dioxide in its gaseous form.  What you see in a cloud is droplets of liquid.  The gas that then evaporates off them is invisible.  This is similar to the 'steam' you see from a kettle, which is not gaseeous water but water droplets; water vapour (the gaseous form of water) is likewise invisible.

It is possible to measure carbon dioxide levels (and indeed oxygen levels) in the air and to have an alarm linked to the measurement to trigger evacuation before a dangerous level is reached.

I don't quite understand what is the process that you are doing and how it relates to the carbon dioxide transfer.





Roundtuit  
#5 Posted : 24 June 2025 10:37:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: Westwick27925 Go to Quoted Post
Thank you for the response Kate, It's an interview scenario I have been given, just trying to get to grips with the context. May I email it to you? My contact details are paul.westwick@dhl.com 

Carbon dioxide doesn't just displace oxygen; it is also toxic in itself. 

You cannot see carbon dioxide in its gaseous form.  What you see in a cloud is droplets of liquid.  The gas that then evaporates off them is invisible.  This is similar to the 'steam' you see from a kettle, which is not gaseeous water but water droplets; water vapour (the gaseous form of water) is likewise invisible.

It is possible to measure carbon dioxide levels (and indeed oxygen levels) in the air and to have an alarm linked to the measurement to trigger evacuation before a dangerous level is reached.

I don't quite understand what is the process that you are doing and how it relates to the carbon dioxide transfer.





Roundtuit  
#6 Posted : 24 June 2025 10:41:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: Westwick27925 Go to Quoted Post
It's an interview scenario My details are paul.westwick@dhl.com

Well that attempted quote didn't work.

We do have Private Messaging on the forum so you don;t need to disclose an employer email address.  

Roundtuit  
#7 Posted : 24 June 2025 10:41:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: Westwick27925 Go to Quoted Post
It's an interview scenario My details are paul.westwick@dhl.com

Well that attempted quote didn't work.

We do have Private Messaging on the forum so you don;t need to disclose an employer email address.  

stevedm  
#8 Posted : 04 July 2025 06:42:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

we see the toxicity in a medcial setting...not a true COSHH issue as the toxic reaction happens at cellular level...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16499405/

Simple asphixiant but can also cause cold burns ...would love to see the origonal post tho' 

thanks 2 users thanked stevedm for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 04/07/2025(UTC), peter gotch on 04/07/2025(UTC)
Kate  
#9 Posted : 04 July 2025 09:52:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

The scenario presented in the original post was along the lines of:

My company has been asked to undertake maintenance on a trailer containing a scanner.  The scanner uses liquid CO2 which is piped in from a tank.  The capacity of the tank is a tonne.  We have calculated that if the entire contents of the tank were relased, the air in our working area would be reduced to 10% oxygen which would mean instant asphyxiation.  The owners of the trailer have told us that there has been a leak during filling in the last year.  When the leak happened, there was a large visible gas cloud and the staff immediately evacuated. Our staff are concerned about undertaking this work.

It subsequently emerged that this wasn't true, but an interview scenario.  So no wonder that there was no elaboration on the nature of the maintenance activity.

thanks 1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
peter gotch on 04/07/2025(UTC)
peter gotch  
#10 Posted : 04 July 2025 12:45:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Thanks Kate, the question put seems a bit odd if as described, not least as there are so many variables not considered in the way the question was constructed.

However, according to multiple sources on the internet, 1 tonne of CO2 would take up 546 cubic metres at standard temperature and pressure but that would be ONCE fully dispersed, which to some extent assumes an unventilated enclosed working area. 

546 m3 is the same as a cube just over 8m in each of three direction. Typical industrial workplace, floor to ceiling height perhaps 4m, so for that the area could be 16m x 8m which is about three times the area of a decent sized bedroom. 

Someone would need some good dispersal modelling software to work out that the oxygen level in a "owrking area" would be down to 10% and be able to identify the parameters of that working area - so perhaps at some point in an arc X metres from the source of a leak.

.....and even that assumes that the trailer would be linked up to the 1 tonne CO2 tank when maintenance work was being done!! - and even that assumes that the rate of release has been determined, which means looking at one specific type of release, e.g. a full bore pipe failure and not e.g. a pinhole.

Way beyond my process safety competence and its sounds like possibly way beyond the competence of those asking the question as well!!

Edited by user 04 July 2025 12:48:53(UTC)  | Reason: Clarification

A Kurdziel  
#11 Posted : 04 July 2025 12:52:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

At room temperature carbon dioxide only forms a liquid at 5 times atmospheric pressure and above. The idea of a container with a tonne of this would worry me. All the applications I have come across use about 1 kg liquid carbon dioxide. The whole system for handling this would have to be engineered to a high standard and  properly maintained.

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
peter gotch on 04/07/2025(UTC)
Kate  
#12 Posted : 04 July 2025 15:36:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

It sounded as if a simplistic worst-case calculation had been done - simply calculating the volume of gas in a catastrophic release and then how much oxygen would be left in whatever the volume of the room / building was if the gas was uniformly dispersed..

The main problem I had with the scenario was a lack of mention about what kind of maintenance was being  done and if or how it related to the CO2 system. 

But as it's all fictitious, I don't really care.

Edited by user 04 July 2025 15:37:07(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Syed Zain Ud Din  
#13 Posted : 04 July 2025 18:52:49(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Syed Zain Ud Din

Originally Posted by: Kate Go to Quoted Post

Carbon dioxide doesn't just displace oxygen; it is also toxic in itself. 

You cannot see carbon dioxide in its gaseous form.  What you see in a cloud is droplets of liquid.  The gas that then evaporates off them is invisible.  This is similar to the 'steam' you see from a kettle, which is not gaseeous water but water droplets; water vapour (the gaseous form of water) is likewise invisible.

It is possible to measure carbon dioxide levels (and indeed oxygen levels) in the air and to have an alarm linked to the measurement to trigger evacuation before a dangerous level is reached.

I don't quite understand what is the process that you are doing and how it relates to the carbon dioxide transfer.

Hi Kate,

Thank you for your clear and informative response.

You're absolutely right—carbon dioxide is not only an asphyxiant but also has toxic effects at high concentrations. In our case, the scanning units involve refilling with CO₂ in either dry ice or liquefied form, which sublimates or evaporates into gas. This process can lead to CO₂ accumulation if not properly controlled, especially in enclosed or poorly ventilated areas.

As part of our COSHH risk assessment, we are now looking into installing fixed CO₂ and oxygen sensors with alarm triggers to ensure that evacuation protocols can be activated well before hazardous levels are reached. Your explanation regarding the invisibility of CO₂ and the misconception around visible vapor was especially useful for reinforcing this need.

Thanks again for your valuable insight.

Kate  
#14 Posted : 04 July 2025 19:11:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Well, you were right about that one, Peter.

peter gotch  
#15 Posted : 05 July 2025 09:52:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Good morning Kate

Given that I can't see that your remark would easily relate to anything I have previously written on THIS thread, it's a bit cryptic but I think, from reading other threads, that I understand what you were getting at, and that Roundtuit has as well.

Kate  
#16 Posted : 05 July 2025 10:43:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Peter, that's because you are a human being with the ability to interpret information in its whole context and understand, instead of merely paraphrase without understanding.

Increasingly I think artificial intelligence is a misnomer.  It's not intelligent at all.

thanks 1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
peter gotch on 05/07/2025(UTC)
peter gotch  
#17 Posted : 05 July 2025 13:44:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Kate, I wonder whether one user of these Forums could trace their ancestry to link to a man who might have had time to investigate the risks of psittacosis after being severely injured during what the defence argued [in a case in the Court of Appeal in 1965] was a "frolic of his own".

Would AI easily manage to solve that cryptic clue?

thanks 1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
Kate on 05/07/2025(UTC)
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