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bxuxa  
#1 Posted : 09 July 2025 13:02:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bxuxa

Hi all,

I’d appreciate your views on whether the following incident may fall under RIDDOR.

An operative was returning to the depot after clearing materials from site. During a stop at a lay-by on a public road, he exited the vehicle and, while stepping onto a kerb, their foot slipped along the side of it. At the time, he believed they may have twisted their ankle but felt no immediate pain and continued the journey back to the depot, where they were still able to drive.

Later that day, the operative reported increased pain and difficulty walking. Next week, he attended a local hospital and was diagnosed with an ankle fracture beneath the heel. A plaster cast was applied, and he is advised to keep the foot elevated and return to hospital within 4–8 weeks for follow-up.

Allegedly, he was wearing safety footwear at the time of the incident.

The incident occurred during a "comfort break", not while conducting any manual handling or job-specific task.

Would you consider this reportable under RIDDOR, considering the injury type and the circumstances in which it occurred? and why?

Thank you

HSSnail  
#2 Posted : 09 July 2025 13:25:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Dont we all love RIDDOR?

For me key to this can be found in section 2 of the Regs - interpritation, specifically

(2) In these Regulations, any reference to a work-related accident or dangerous occurrence includes an accident or dangerous occurrence attributable to—

(a)the manner of conducting an undertaking;

(b)the plant or substances used for the purposes of an undertaking; or

(c)the condition of the premises used for the purposes of an undertaking or any part of them.

while it appears the injury was due to the slippy curb i do not belive this satisfies section c - its a public area not part of the premises, likewise i dont think a or b are satisfied, so for me this is not a work-related accident so the injury is not reportable.

Had this been a road works situation where the driver was for example delivering something to the layby, or had it happend in the company carpark which they were responsible for mainatining then i might consider it part of the works premises- but that would need a site inspection.

thanks 2 users thanked HSSnail for this useful post.
Holliday42333 on 09/07/2025(UTC), bxuxa on 09/07/2025(UTC)
Holliday42333  
#3 Posted : 09 July 2025 14:16:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Holliday42333

Nobody loves RIDDOR HSSnail ;)

I agree; not reportable.

At work but not 'work-related' so far as RIDDOR is concerned

thanks 1 user thanked Holliday42333 for this useful post.
bxuxa on 09/07/2025(UTC)
peter gotch  
#4 Posted : 09 July 2025 15:57:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi bxuxa

I don't think it's reportable but for different reasons to those cited by the Snail.

The Royal We don't love RIDDOR in its current form, but then We were not in love with the previous iteration of RIDDOR, We disliked NADOR intensely and We were not particularly enamoured by Sections 80-82 of the Factories Act 1961 and the parallel legislation that applied to some sectors other than factories (and so called 'notional factories').

First you have to consider whether this person was "at work" a term defined in Section 52 of HSWA and I think the answer to that is YES as any worker should be entitled to a "comfort break" - during the course of his employment (LOTS of case law on interpreting those wordsand the Interpretation Act 1978 tells you to interpret his and including her)

Next you have to consider whether this was a "work-related accident" and I am not going to make judgement on that, but would note that I would treat the HSE guidance with a huge pinch of salt. So may be,  may be not.

What I am certainly NOT going to say is the parameter is whether the kerb was part of "premises" as that is a defined term in Section 53 of HSWA which says:

" premises " includes any place and, in particular, includes—

(a) any vehicle, vessel, aircraft or hovercraft,

(b) any installation on land (including the foreshore and other land intermittently covered by water), any offshore installation, and any other installation (whether floating, or resting on the seabed or the subsoil thereof, or resting on other land covered with water or the subsoil thereof), and

(c) any tent or movable structure ;

The important bit are the words "any place" but the rest serves to remind us that "premises" doesn't need any physical structures (even though arguably the kerb is part of a structure).

However, the reason why this is not reportable in my opinion is mostly for exactly the same reason why the vast majority of work=related transportation accidents are not reportable even if they meet the seveity threshold for e.g. an "over 7 day injury" accident. 

You have to go towards the end of RIDDOR to find key exceptions to its scope including Regulation 14(3):

(3) Where the injury or death of a person arises out of or in connection with the movement of a vehicle on a road, the requirements of regulations 4, 5, 6 and 12(1)(b) do not apply, UNLESS that person—

(a) was injured or killed by an accident involving a train;

(b) was injured or killed by exposure to a substance being conveyed by the vehicle;

(c) was engaged in work connected with the loading or unloading of any article or substance onto or off the vehicle at the time of the accident, or was injured or killed by the activities of another person who was so engaged; or

(d) was engaged in, or was injured or killed by the activities of another person who was at the time of the accident engaged in, work on or alongside a road.

If the driver had been unloading then we could have a debate about whether the incident met the requirement for the incident to be "work-related". But if they were just stopping for a "comfort break" then it seems to me that the incident is outside the scope of RIDDOR.

Edited by user 09 July 2025 15:58:12(UTC)  | Reason: Typo

thanks 2 users thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
bxuxa on 09/07/2025(UTC), AlexisB on 11/07/2025(UTC)
bxuxa  
#5 Posted : 09 July 2025 20:26:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bxuxa

Thank you, everyone, for these fantastic comments! It's genuinely an expert space.

While I acknowledge Peter's valid point that Section 53 of HSWA broadly defines 'premises' to include 'any place', which indeed extends beyond an employer's direct control to encompass where work activities might impact safety, the critical element for RIDDOR in this scenario is whether the accident was 'work-related' in the specific sense of the reporting regulations. Our lack of control over the public kerb, and the fact it's not our 'workplace' in the operational sense, means we cannot be held responsible for its condition, in line with what HSSnail mentioned. This leads us to the specific exemptions within RIDDOR itself.

This distinction becomes apparent when considering Regulation 14(3) of RIDDOR, which provides a specific exemption for road traffic accidents. The driver was simply on a public road for a 'comfort break,' which falls squarely outside the exceptions for reporting such incidents.

Reflecting on what constitutes a work-related accident is to be at work, as per RIDDOR interpretation and Section 52 of the HSWA. A comfort break is not being at employment in my view, especially when outside a space that we control.

Roundtuit  
#6 Posted : 10 July 2025 12:23:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: bxuxa Go to Quoted Post
Allegedly, he was wearing safety footwear at the time of the incident.

I am trying to work out if you are saying this as a good thing (wearing the company specified PPE) or a bad thing (driving in protective footwear not offering suitable vehicle control).

Not all safety footwear is suitable for all circumstances especially for those operating across many work places.

Driving between construction locations I would always swap from site boots the protective toe cap having a tendency to cut in (driving comfort is rarely a design consideration with PPE).

So not RIDDOR but an opportunity for reflection.

Roundtuit  
#7 Posted : 10 July 2025 12:23:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: bxuxa Go to Quoted Post
Allegedly, he was wearing safety footwear at the time of the incident.

I am trying to work out if you are saying this as a good thing (wearing the company specified PPE) or a bad thing (driving in protective footwear not offering suitable vehicle control).

Not all safety footwear is suitable for all circumstances especially for those operating across many work places.

Driving between construction locations I would always swap from site boots the protective toe cap having a tendency to cut in (driving comfort is rarely a design consideration with PPE).

So not RIDDOR but an opportunity for reflection.

bxuxa  
#8 Posted : 10 July 2025 18:12:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bxuxa

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: bxuxa Go to Quoted Post
Allegedly, he was wearing safety footwear at the time of the incident.

I am trying to work out if you are saying this as a good thing (wearing the company specified PPE) or a bad thing (driving in protective footwear not offering suitable vehicle control).

Not all safety footwear is suitable for all circumstances especially for those operating across many work places.

Driving between construction locations I would always swap from site boots the protective toe cap having a tendency to cut in (driving comfort is rarely a design consideration with PPE).

So not RIDDOR but an opportunity for reflection.


Exactly! That "opportunity for reflection" is precisely where my mind went, particularly to the impact footwear can have on driving. My initial thought about the incident and the safety footwear was indeed sparked by that almost "invisible" but really crucial statement – the curiosity about the fact that not all safety footwear is suitable for driving.

This leads me to a key question that's now top of mind: how can you really determine if a specific pair of safety footwear is suitable for driving, and are there any formal standards that address this?

Acorns  
#9 Posted : 11 July 2025 10:11:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Acorns

Whether it’s riddor or not (and I don’t see that it is), you’re doing the right think by investigating the incident.
With mention of the road traffic collision exemption. It wouldn’t fall into being a reportable RTC either, so the exemption wouldn’t apply.
thanks 1 user thanked Acorns for this useful post.
bxuxa on 13/07/2025(UTC)
peter gotch  
#10 Posted : 11 July 2025 14:50:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi bxuxa

Be careful not to conflate the issue of liability with what is reportable under RIDDOR.

RIDDOR is nothing to do with liability. It is a code of Regulations that are administrative in nature and designed to provide the authorities with some statistical information as to the causes of some accidents,  some (a very small fraction) occupational ill health and some dangerous occurrences. HSE and other regulators do also use what is reported (and in theory recorded) to help inform decisions on whether to make "contact" with a duty holder e.g. to investigate, but the number of reported incidents that are investigated is a tiny proportion of the total.

So deciding that something is reportable is not an admission of liability. Equally a duty holder could be in serious breach in circumstances where an incident is not reportable or recordable.

Part of the problem with deciding on reportability is that the HSE guidance often points the duty holder in the direction of deciding against. How intentional this is I am not sure, but it may serve the HSE's interests to receive less reports - means less work for HSE staff involved in inputting data and at the same time, less reports makes the statistics look smaller, which might be convenient when trying to benchmark against the numbers in other countries*. Hence, my advice is ALWAYS to read the detail of the Regulations and ignore what HSE has to say in its guidance. 

*There are lots of accidents which are reportable in many other countries but not in the UK!!

bxuxa  
#11 Posted : 13 July 2025 17:29:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bxuxa

Valid point, Peter Gotch. Indeed, you may need to report even when you are not liable.

Regarding the concern that people refrain from reporting RIDDOR due to regulators, I don't think fear is the primary driver. I believe the greater impact often stems from commercial reasons and the need to justify incidents. Sometimes, an incident might be challenging to explain, or even a misinterpretation can be taken out of context, or, as you mentioned, the organisation might not hold liability.

Picking up on your point about the usefulness of sharing information with the HSE, it's unfortunate that we can solely benchmark against RIDDOR, especially since a significant number of events are not recorded.

I know that in some EU countries, businesses are required to provide an annual report detailing incidents that occur on-site.

peter gotch  
#12 Posted : 14 July 2025 10:59:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Morning bxuxa

To selectively quote from your post:

I don't think fear is the primary driver. I believe the greater impact often stems from commercial reasons

I suggest these two sentences are contradictory.

I agree entirely that the fear might have nothing to do with the regulator, but rather the potential impact of so called Blue Tape, e.g. that used in assessing the H&S "competence" of potential suppliers e.g. via prequalification questionnaries (PQQ).

I use the word "competence" perhaps a little loosely as HSE was scrupulous in getting rid of the word in the current iteration of CDM, but I suggest that the words that were put in to replace "competence" mean implicitly the same.

Some of those making the assessments of what potential suppliers say in their responses to PQQs apply a very simplistic approach to interpreting the information supplied, so MAY conclude that if a supplier says that they have had more e.g. RIDDOR reportable events than others being considered they might be less "competent".

However, that suggests to me a problem with the competence of those doing these assessment and is not a strong argument for organisations to use all the tricks in the book to manipulate the numbers down to the minimum they can get away with.

The more competent assessors realise that there are many variables to consider in coming to a view on the competence of those filling in PQQs etc, inclusive of e.g. the nature of the work to be outsourced (SOME tasks are inherently more dangerous than others), how much a potential supplier subcontracts (and where), and perhaps more important than anything else what systems the potential supplier has in place to investigate and learn from incidents that give rise to suggest that there may be room for improvement. 

These more competent assessors will realise that benchmarking between potential suppliers A and B by numbers alone is almost impossible.

As a very simple example, imagine that a Client is looknig for a Contractor to build a £10m project.

Contractors A and B each say that they employ 1000 people.

Contractor A says that the Accident Frequency Rate (calculated by whatever method the Client has defined) is 28.

Contractor B says that their AFR is 14. 

The simplistic assessor concludes that Contractor A is twice as bad as Contractor B. The numbers prove it!!!

However this assumes that comparing A and B is like looking at two apples of the same size (1000 employees) and misses the fact that A and B are very different animals.

So, if we establish that Contractor A's business model is to keep a tight lid on everything and to cmploy as many trades as practical inhouse, and the 1000 staff include e.g. demolition workers, steel erectors, scaffolders, roofers and other high risk trades......

...whereas Contractor B deliberately outsources almost everything and operates as a Management Contractor, then almost all their staff will spend most of their time sitting at desks (though with some occasionally walking around sites, but NOT actually doing high risk tasks)......

....then perhaps you should EXPECT that Contractor B's AFR to be MUCH higher than that for Contractor A and quite possibly by a factor of much more than 2.

Ergo, Contractor A is at least as good as Contractor B and if they keep things inhouse they are perhaps likely to have a better control of most aspects of how they do business? - though not necessarily.

BOTH business models are entirely valid.

Looking at any objective measure a Management Contractor can be just as effective as a Contractor that does most things itself, IF the Management Contractor has tight control over its supply chain.

So, with all these IFs and BUTs to consider is ANY competent assessor of what is submitted in a PQQ or similar going to make negative judgements purely on the basis of the numbers submitted?

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