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Occupation Safety and Health Consultants Register
Rank: Forum user 
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Couple of points. 1. Has anyone noticed the consultants are listed alphabetically by Forename. Good for Adam, but hard luck for Zackery. The OSHCR team tell me the search results are to be randomised.
2. Has anyone also noticed that the big consultancies (no names no pack drill) appear many times in the search results, because they have registered all their consultants under the company name. Whereas the likes of me (self employed) can only appear once. Is it just me, or is this unfair?
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Rank: Forum user
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I think one of the problems with this OSHCR nonsense is actually defining what a 'consultant' is.
As I have stated in a number of posts recently - I work for an engineering design company. My job title is Safety Engineer - we do work for a number of high risk industry clients.
Each project needs suitable risk analysis etc - FTA/ETA/HAZOP, conventional risk assessments, CDM design risk asessments etc, CE marking/assessments etc.
I go out to visit clients etc
So am I a safety consultant or a safety engineer? I struggle to see the difference.
If I were to become self employed, I would call myself a Safety Engineer. WOuld I bother to register on the OSHCR? Its not a legal requirement, so why should I?
Work is picked up by business contacts who know I have credible experience and qualifications - BSc, IOSH Diploma, MSc levels quals plus 16yrs experience.
I am no longer a member of IOSH/CMIOSH - as it gave no benefits. There has been no drop off in work or questions raised by this.
I will happily take work off CMIOSH and other people regardless of IOSH and the OSCHR membership - being a member of either does NOT make someone competent and in my experience means very little to most clients.
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Rank: Forum user
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I agree with what you say, but there is a difference between a Safety Engineer and a Safety Consultant. Just a look at the qualifications necessary gives a clue. We may or may not like the idea of a 'Consultants' Register, but we have it now. My point is that larger companies have used there IT expertise to manipulate the searches in their favour. I get a fair amount of work through referrals, but would like to see a level playing field with respect to the Register.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Can anyone suggest how the success or failure of this monster will be measured?
Who checks the validity or otherwise of PI. Surely a tick box is insufficient?. Robust verification would I submit, reveal that that a lot of the "consultants" working for the larger consultancies are using their employers PI. As I posted elsewhere I do not believe that this is in the best interests of the end user. Nor was it the intention of the now departed Lord Young.
Jon
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Is it not up to the employer/client to check competence? If they don't check competence they may get the cowboys but that is up to them.
There has to be an initial criteria to get onto the register and that has been used, there has to be a starting point.
This would include qualifications, experience and PI.
I believe there is a lot of hot air at present about the register without giving it a chance.
Those who do not care about it let it ride. Those that do care will give it a go.
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Rank: Super forum user
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John M wrote:Can anyone suggest how the success or failure of this monster will be measured?
Who checks the validity or otherwise of PI. Surely a tick box is insufficient?. Robust verification would I submit, reveal that that a lot of the "consultants" working for the larger consultancies are using their employers PI. As I posted elsewhere I do not believe that this is in the best interests of the end user. Nor was it the intention of the now departed Lord Young.
Jon John, 1. If I am employed as a Consultant, I cannot see what the problem is with using my employer’s PI insurance as my work will be insured. 2. Could you please identify exactly what Lord Young did say on PI Insurance or exact source of your statement? If we are quoting a third party on this forum, we surely should be quoting them in a professional way.
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Rank: Super forum user
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No issue with using employers PI if he /she is on bone fide employers' business. My concern is the "moonlighting", i.e. extra services such as cash in hand, training, advice, support outside of employers business. The Saturday morning training events come to mind!
I have not quoted or misquoted anything that Lord Young has said. However, I am aware of particular questions put to the noble Lord and the responses thereto during two invited briefing sessions with key stakeholders.
Hope this helps!
Jon
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Rank: Super forum user
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John,
You stated ......"Nor was it the intention of the now departed Lord Young", what was Lord Young's intention?
As for moonlighting on the back of my employer's PI insurance, it simply would not work and anyway would also be a code point 16 breach of our Professional Code of Practice.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Jon
There's been at least one case where an employer's PII has been hit for moonlighting about which the employer had no knowledge.
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Rank: Forum user
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Clark34493 wrote:Couple of points. 1. Has anyone noticed the consultants are listed alphabetically by Forename. Good for Adam, but hard luck for Zackery. The OSHCR team tell me the search results are to be randomised.
2. Has anyone also noticed that the big consultancies (no names no pack drill) appear many times in the search results, because they have registered all their consultants under the company name. Whereas the likes of me (self employed) can only appear once. Is it just me, or is this unfair? I have emailed the HSE at Bootle about this issue and that the website cannot be used to search by town. The person replied and said I could be found on North Yorkshire, 2nd page. However, when I put my town in, and add the County, a consultant comes up who is 20 miles away but not me, who,lives there. Hopefully this will be sorted - or should we all change our names to Aaron?
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Rank: Forum user
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I, too, emailed HSE about the unfairness...still waiting for a response though. I phoned my Mum to ask whether she could have thought harder about calling me a name that would inevitably lead to 2nd page status...what a poor decision.
It's also strange when you scan through the Register - some people who work for the big companies seem to have forgotten this when putting in 'Name of Company' and have put their own name in again.
I guess it must be easy to forget when filling in forms in a hurry...details, eh? ;-)
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Rank: Forum user
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Clark34493 wrote:Couple of points. 1. Has anyone noticed the consultants are listed alphabetically by Forename. Good for Adam, but hard luck for Zackery. The OSHCR team tell me the search results are to be randomised.
2. Has anyone also noticed that the big consultancies (no names no pack drill) appear many times in the search results, because they have registered all their consultants under the company name. Whereas the likes of me (self employed) can only appear once. Is it just me, or is this unfair? I have been told that the database does not allow specifics such as areas. The response said that this gives employers the best choice possible, to choose from. An unacceptable response in my opinion.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Has anybody received any feedback on whether this Register is a failure or do we to assume that because no body has posted on its success that it must be so.
Jon
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Rank: Super forum user
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I am on the register and at present have no views either way. It has been running for a very short time after all.
Please give it a chance to fail?
If there are any consultants not on the register that have negative views please give them here.
I think the only people against the register are those that can not get onto it?
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Rank: Forum user
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Pithy response, Chris - but I have to agree!
Registration does seem to be an up-coming requirement for several (larger) clients. Having said that, it appears to have been a worthwhile £30 spend.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I note a few on the "Register" who have never consulted in their lifetime and perhaps will never reach or obtain the requisite qualities of a consultant.
One must wonder that if the situation is replicated nationally how many health and safety officers, administrators, nurses, hygienests, LA Inspectors and such like are now elevated to Consultant status.
Jon
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Given the original posting, it might affect my plans for any career change...:-(!
Zyggy
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Rank: Forum user
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Looking at the HSE site, the logo is getting smaller and smaller, and businesses would have to know what 'OSHCR' was to click on it....another sign of HSE bias against consultants?
If it's a success, let's hear it from those who have been contacted in the last few weeks (i.e. the Aaron's and Alisons)...I await with baited breath
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Rank: Super forum user
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Lambert45022 wrote:Pithy response, Chris - but I have to agree!
Registration does seem to be an up-coming requirement for several (larger) clients. Having said that, it appears to have been a worthwhile £30 spend. Are you taking the pithy Lambert ha ha. Nobody contacted me yet and I'm a "C", but even without the register it would be the same. Just give it time. I agree it is a good £30.00 to spend. I'm getting new business cards today - complete with the IOSH and OSHCR logos. It must do some good? If not it's only 30 quid.
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Rank: Super forum user
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That may not be a prudent move- you might just be left with a very large number of business cards this time next year - all bearing the "new" logo and promoting a defunct organisation.
Jon
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Rank: Super forum user
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quote=John M]I note a few on the "Register" who have never consulted in their lifetime and perhaps will never reach or obtain the requisite qualities of a consultant.
One must wonder that if the situation is replicated nationally how many health and safety officers, administrators, nurses, hygienests, LA Inspectors and such like are now elevated to Consultant status.
Jon Jon, As far as I'm aware there is no law to suggest that in order to consult that you must be on the register (not that I'm 1 of these) and very much doubt that it will. This appears merely an exercise by the HSE in order to appease ministers that something is being done seeing as the HSE first made noises regarding their stand as to what advice businesses were receiving and indicated they were not happy about it!
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Rank: Super forum user
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You are quite correct in your assertion that there is no legal requirement to be "registered" to be a consultant. Good examples are double glazing or home improvement "consultants. I might go further - a sales consultant for Avon - affectionately known as the Avon Lady; one who hawks her company's wares from door to door.
However, it is a well established principle that to be a consultant it is necessary to satisfy the following essential requirements:-
at least three years experience as a consultant,
experience in all elements of the consulting life cycle,
proof of full ownership for delivery of a project for a major work stream,
experience in managing others and,
that their contribution is highly valued by their client.
Not only was the HSE party to the register, we must not forget that IOSH and others were active and influential participants in the creation of OHSCR.
It is therefore a matter of great concern (to me at least) that the Register is currently populated with a great many "consultants" who do not, or can not fulfill these essential core requirements.
Whether "being on the Register" will become a legal requirement in the future remains to be seen. LY did not rule out the possibility of enforced registration if the voluntary scheme flounders or is not fit for purpose.
The present coalition has a track record of capitulation so enforced registration may not come to pass. I will not mourn the ultimate demise of the register.
Jon
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Rank: Super forum user
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John M wrote:Has anybody received any feedback on whether this Register is a failure or do we to assume that because no body has posted on its success that it must be so.
Jon John, I suspect that the reverse will occur to those consultants who are not on the register. I am already aware of one consultant who has already lost a client because they were not registered.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Stedman
Thanks for this info. A good start.
Jon
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Rank: Forum user
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John M wrote:I note a few on the "Register" who have never consulted in their lifetime and perhaps will never reach or obtain the requisite qualities of a consultant.
One must wonder that if the situation is replicated nationally how many health and safety officers, administrators, nurses, hygienests, LA Inspectors and such like are now elevated to Consultant status.
Jon "elevated" ? There are many people in those roles who are better qualified and better experienced than those on the register - and hold whatever qualities you elude to. "Consultant" does not confer any status in our industry so please do not belittle those of us who hold posts without that title Jon. Regards.
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Rank: Forum user
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I'm surprised anyone's lost work through not being on the Register but then with the sort of stories you hear in H&S nothing surprises me any more.
For the record, I registered with OSHCR before the search facility was open. There are now some 2,000 registrants, bringing in fees of £60,000 which is probably not enough to even pay for any checks of who's registered.
Since I've been registered, I have, as expected, received Zero enquiries, although perhaps one day I might get a solitary one or two - who knows?
There's no evidence that huge tranches of businesses are actively searching the database for consultants.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hmmm will this mean the demise of IOSH own consultant register happening?
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Rank: Super forum user
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I have no intention of belitteling anybody.
At the heart of my arguement is the fact that the Register has within its kernal a modicum of persons who have never consulted in their lifetime. They may have impressive letters after their name; such designatory letters does not necessarily make them "consultants". Nor does compliance with standards. It is indeed interesting that the Register does not refer to competency.
Jon
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Rank: Super forum user
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I recently applied in response to a vacancy for a fire consultant with a major player in the fire safety field. I was not shortlisted because I am not on any fire risk assessment register. My CV meant nothing to them as their client wanted only registered fire consultants. I could be better than some on a register but .......................... who knows?
Nothing to do with this topic of course but it may well go the same way?
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Rank: Super forum user
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John M wrote:That may not be a prudent move- you might just be left with a very large number of business cards this time next year - all bearing the "new" logo and promoting a defunct organisation.
Jon I got my cards printed. The store I went to had 100 business cards for £14.99. If you took out a business account with them you got an extra 400 cards free. I signed up, (no cost for the account), but the printer had a problem making up the cards so he gave me an extra 500 for inconvenience. Yes 1000 business cards for £14.99. I agree what a waste that will be if the register fails ha ha. If it does fail I will keep on using the cards anyway as it will not upset anyone, at least I will be able to say I was on the register. As for promoting an organisation - I believe it elevates my status as I belong to an organisation promoted by the HSE.
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Rank: Forum user
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If I decide to register, I will be first in the directory....
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Rank: Super forum user
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By way of clarification, the organisation I have in miind is the OHSCR -not IOSH or other stakeholders.
Jon
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Rank: Super forum user
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I understand John,
I only mention regarding the register on this site as it was mentioned that IOSH played a leading role in establishing the OHSCR thus introducing a further register of consultants, although would have played no part in actually vetting applicants but may have had an input as to what competencies should be considered for the OHSCR. This I expect would be along their own scrutiny lines for the register within this web site?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Is it me, but I thought that the OSHCR was created to guard against 'over-zealous and unscrupulous' consultants. I can't for the life of me see how this list will actually implement the desired effect..... especially as it seems it's not that hard to join.
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Rank: Forum user
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The usability of this new register is a little, well, it is not the best!
But, as it has only been opened a week or so, I see it as beta. I am a positive person and remain hopeful that when it becomes self funding it works better for consultants.
This register will take some time to become a point of call for potential clients for consultants. The HSE/LA officers will take while to mention this register and change their websites and documentation. I would also hope that the OSHCR will begin to run ads in various trade papers, web sites and other media to support the register.
On the issue of larger consultancies, I don't see a major issue. For transparency's sake they should list their company correctly. But a consultant is a consultant, providing they meet the criteria.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Phillip, don't hold your breath waiting for adverts. They cost money which isn't available.
I still see the register as a low-cost marketing and sales aid, giving me an edge over another consultant who is not registered.
I will not re-enter the debate on competence.
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Rank: Super forum user
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A colleague (who lives in Yorkshire) and I were discussing the Register a few evenings ago. He is a Registered Consusltant and was, in a moment of idleness checking the endorsement on the register.
There is at least one registrant listed as living and practicing in a far away place - Hong Kong to be exact! Complete with a Hong Kong telephone number!
I know HK used to be a British Colony but now it is under Chinese jurisdiction and control. Full marks to the HSE for expansionist intentions.
One must wonder how the information is populated - human or robotic. More important - who is checking PI insurance, checking being the operative word.
A total embarrassment.
Jon
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Rank: Super forum user
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John M wrote:A colleague (who lives in Yorkshire) and I were discussing the Register a few evenings ago. He is a Registered Consusltant and was, in a moment of idleness checking the endorsement on the register.
There is at least one registrant listed as living and practicing in a far away place - Hong Kong to be exact! Complete with a Hong Kong telephone number!
I know HK used to be a British Colony but now it is under Chinese jurisdiction and control. Full marks to the HSE for expansionist intentions.
One must wonder how the information is populated - human or robotic. More important - who is checking PI insurance, checking being the operative word.
A total embarrassment.
Jon I take it that you are not qualified then?
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Rank: Super forum user
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You "take" it wrongly!
Not only qualified but highly qualified with a Masters and another cognate degree + 30 years in man and safety management.
It is very often wrong to assume or "take" for granted .
Hope this helps you out.
Jon
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Each professional body is responsible for checking that applicants from that body meet the threshold requirements. In addition each applicant undertakes to meet cetain standards, e.g. to give proportionate advice.
If a case arises where an OSHCR member appears not to have complied with any of the required standards, for an IOSH member that would be followed up using the disciplinary process, and the same for other bodies. From my own experience as an IOSH Council Member and then Trustee, I'm certain that IOSH does have appropriate systems and people in place to make this happen on the relatively few occasions when it is needed. Though this may seem a rather negative approach, I suggest it's part of the guarantee that prospective users need before approaching those on the Register.
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