£20 a month for first aiders

Crikey I am mean! Nothing! We did pay first aiders but withdrew this some time ago, amid a bit of protest. To be honest, even though we don't pay any more, I don't have any trouble getting volunteers for either first aid or fire marshals. Try a search, this has been discussed a number of times before.

Zilch. I'm not happy about it, not least because I'm both a fire warden and first aider myself! But we're civil service and that's the rule. I had some senior management support a while back for an extra day's leave for FAs and FWs, but even-more-senior management blocked it. At my last place (private sector) FAs got a fiver a week, FWs nothing.

We pay FAW qualified £150 pa, EFA qualified £52 pa and FW £75 pa. We are however in a minority within the HE sector in doing this. Alan

At a local authority I briefly worked for a few years ago the FAWs received an 'honorarium' of £200 a year. Personally I think it is wrong to pay for this as other places I have worked in have never had a problem getting volunteers. Anyway, one of the issues I had at this LA was a long service senior manager who had been out of date over 10 years was still receiving the honorarium. I initially put that down to spineless HR not challenging this. But I soon realised that she was not alone and quite a few were receiving this honorarium. It had effectively become part of the salary, a way of paying a bit more without the bad publicity. In one office of 55 there were 8 on this honorarium .......

I used to get £50 per year as a first aider- not much but it made it feel like it was worth volunteering for (I accept the comments about work etc from Ian) however first aiders are volunteers - generally it is not compulsory so some form of 'reward' is not in my opinion OTT. However my current employer does not agree me (they take Ian's hard line!) and as such I do struggle in some areas to find willing volunteers and always end up almost pleading with people to take on the role. A pound a week is not much in these times to offer someone for going over and above the call of duty in what may be a very traumatic situation. - IMHO.

Well said Ian (OMG!). I fail to see any overwhelming argument to pay first aiders etc additional money. I never have a problem with getting volunteers. They are getting trained and get a transferable skill that they can use for the good of others. I am disappointed that so many people fail to appreciate that 'reward' can mean something more than a couple of fivers.

Crikey. I will need a first aider with so many people agreeing with me...I'm feeling light headed already! My approach is not hard line, any more than it applies universally across the public sector (and at Blenkharn Environmental!). The concept is that you cannot, and with public money, should not be paid twice for the same hours of duty. Some public sector employees may have buckled under local pressures, usually of the "they [in teh private sector] get paid, why can't we" kind and not through lack of volunteers per se. In this case, funding will usually be "unofficial" with funds taken from local consumables budgets and paid as a miscellaneous expense item. That does not make it any better. In these straightened times it would not be surprising to find that much of this is swept away as expenditure comes under ever closer scrutiny.

I, too, think Ian's approach is overly harsh. Has no-one heard of an extra responsibility payment? The key thing is that unpaid volunteers can walk away from the 'added' role at any time and there cannot be any management 'come back'. If your safety system relies on people taking on roles greater than those of their colleagues, there has to be some form of contractual arrangement (i.e. money for service) to effectively compel them to play their part. Facetiously, it could be said that a verbal contract is not worth the paper it isn't written on! After all, if you told the HSE that your safety arrangements relied on people who weren't under an obligation to operate in the way you specified, would you be surprised if you received an improvement notice?

M we pay £0, yes £0 for first aid It is seen by all as a bonus to be trained, more use at home than in the workplace, last course that we ran had 8 volunteers, course before 7 next course due so far 8,

A number of us seem to be from the Public sector, for what it's worth there is a Special Bonus Scheme which can be used to reward those who have gone the extra mile in terms of gaining qualifications that benefit the wider organisation. Last time I checked First aid was excluded but other qualifications were pretty much at Management discretion. usually takes the form of a one of payment. I am with Ian and Phil on this, you cannot pay someone twice for the same hours. Sean if you are doing DSE assessments during the working day then presumably you are not doing what you consider to be your normal role? Nic

And a reward for the person that sorts the post? Or makes the coffee? Or perhaps a reward for carrying the packs of paper from the storeroom to refill the photocopier? Or a reward for being a keyholder and locking up each night? Perhaps they all get their reward, at the end of every month, paid into their bank account? But if rewards, or even thank you's are to be given, then why reward some and not others?

Sean, being one of the (admittedly) few to speak against the "privilege" of workers supporting the employer's safety system without reward, would you care to revise the use of the word "all" in your first statement? Perhaps a word with the employer is called for? I cannot see how the employer's insurance will accept liability if you are feel obligated to become involved in a field in which it takes (at its most basic level) several months of training and some qualification to be legitimately recognised. You also have to accept the role. If neither of these apply, the employer's insurance is just a bit of paper. However, when the inevitable brush off occurs, perhaps a work with your local HSE inspector might bear more fruit? If things go wrong, there is always the Tribunals Service: it sounds like you might have a case.

quote=Sean]You all amaze me, a consultant can charge ......I am now expected to make full medical assessments without any medical training! Sean I assume that you are not competent to provide a full medical assessment, and probably never will be. You tell us that. Why then do you want some extra money for this task? You are not competent. Your employer should not expect you to do this, and you should not accept the task and then expect some extra reward. Receiving some additional money at the end of the week will not make you competent. Leaving aside all other issues, in my book you would not deserve any money. You also say: So off course you are being used by the business. That’s what employment is all about! But I presume that you do get a salary, so the complaint that you receive no remuneration for your efforts is entirely wrong. I am amazed at your complaint, and saddened too.

Stuff, It's tactics to get the employer to listen without going ballistic. If you go in ranting about the HSE and enforcement, you'll be signing on in about 3.57 seconds. However, if you are being helpful to the employer by pointing out a possible financial weakness, it won't be seen so readily as an attack or threat. After all, knowing your environment is part of the consultative ethos.

I have been doing WS assessments for as long as I can remember. For the most part they are not something that I particularly enjoy doing (understatement). Many are pretty routine and straightforward but I accept that there are some that certainly take more thought, and a more ‘cunning’ approach, and of course for a good number of these I have to take a variety of acute and chronic medical conditions into consideration, but I would NEVER consider that this constitutes in any way a FULL MEDICAL assessment, and I find it almost incredulous that you (Sean) consider that this is what you are doing. I would hazard a guess that your employer would be equally surprised to hear such a claim. I personally wouldn’t pay a consultant or an OH nurse £300 for a routine WS assessment and if the person has a long term or chronic condition, there is a well known method of getting an independent and objective assessment done absolutely free of charge! Lastly, I assume that you’re doing this work during ‘work time’. In that respect I suggest that you are getting paid. I am also rather saddened that you feel ’used’, but I also accept that is a personal feeling based on your particular circumstances. In saying all of that you SHOULD be competent to do these assessments and feel that you are competent as well. I am assuming that you do not have IOSH membership. If you are could I suggest Code of Conduct (5)? You obviously feel aggrieved (although I get the feeling that this is largely centred around money, rather than anything else), and I therefore suggest a non confrontational approach to resolving your grievance. I suggest that you raise (e mail = audit trail!) this with your authorities Health and Safety Manager (or whatever) and/or, if a member of a union speak to the H&S rep or whatever. If necessary use the grievance procedure. My advice is approach it non confrontationally and from the competence angle, rather than money and being ’used’ angle. I suggest that is the more likely to get a result, than the ‘Oliver‘ approach! Unless of course you ARE just after mmore 'gruel'.

Yeah with people like you involved. If you want a car to go extra miles you have to put more fuel in, simple!!!

For years we have had this argument about paying something to our first aiders and our management have always said no, using similar arguments to Ian’s but we, The SHE team, have said: 1. First Aid is not the job that these people have signed up for. It’s an extra. 2. They have to do quite rigorous training including regular refreshers 3. Actually dealing with a real emergency is stressful. I have seen grown men shivering like a leaf after patching someone up. When we gained a whole new management they seemed keen to look at this again and said that in principle they believed that first aiders should be rewarded. Then came the austerity times and they think that first aiders should still be rewarded they don’t think that anything as vulgar as cash is appropriate. Perhaps a mention in dispatches might be better! Reading further down it seems that Ian does not believe in any form of bonus payment!