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Harmed  
#1 Posted : 03 May 2011 13:43:54(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Harmed

How would you judge a solution based on the HSG 65 section on "Cooperation" (from 1= poor, up to 5=excellent)? The 4th paragraph down under the HSG65 heading of "Cooperation" reads as follows ... "Opportunities to promote involvement also arise through the use of hazard report books, suggestion schemes or safety circles (similar to quality circles) where health and safety problems can be identified and solved. These too can develop enthusiasm and draw on worker expertise." Using this paragraph as the basis for the presentation, the presenter proposed creating safety circles as workshops for managers having difficulties meeting their H&S responsibilities. Problems with understanding, good practice etc would be exchanged, and managers would also be advised by attendant HSOs as to how to go about finding solutions. The time for these meetings would bemade available by taking a severity/risk-based approach was suggested (severity of injury in the case of an accident, risk in the case of a poor audit etc). Your rating of the presentation and any suggestions would be much appreciated?
Bob Shillabeer  
#2 Posted : 03 May 2011 14:51:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bob Shillabeer

Forget trying to get managers and supervisors to undertake exactly what HSG65 says. Be more procactive and explain to them what thier legal and moral roles and duties are. If it is decided that safety circles or whatever you choose to call them is what you want to do make sure they emphasis how they meet thier legal duties but dont forget the very true fact that they can be demmed outside the law for any breaches they may fail to manage properly, its suprising how that often concentrates the mind. As far as judging the score from 1 to 5 is concerned no one can do that without knowledge of your situation. Only you can judge where you are at any one time. Firstly you need to get senior management onboard fully and the rest will soon follow.
walker  
#3 Posted : 03 May 2011 15:41:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

I think you have to appeal to their morals. Its a waste of time kidding ourselves that the law will catch up with them.
KieranD  
#4 Posted : 03 May 2011 16:40:59(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

Harmed If you are working in a high hazard sector, the viability of your business will be affected by the quality of safety compliance. Assuming that managers are approximately as conscientious as you evidently are, it's difficult to imagine how raising 'legal and/moral' issues is likely to do anything more than waste energy and time. The real danger is that such an approach risks being seen as adding to the bureaucracy of a 'permit to work' safe system of work and reducing the level of trust and confidence you evidently work hard to establish. As an accredited coaching psychologist as well as a chartered safety and health practitioner, I approach the kind of situation you outline as one in which techniques of strategic negotiation are needed. In a nutshell, that means negotiating a 'wish list' with each manager you aim to influence and then turning their wishes and yours into realities. There's quite a lot published on methods of strategic negotiation. If you would like to have a couple of specific references, in which you can leverage the rating scales you already have in tandem with rating scales chosen by the managers you wish to influence, you can PM me or phone me on 020 8654 0808 during office hours.
Bob Shillabeer  
#5 Posted : 03 May 2011 16:56:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bob Shillabeer

Walker there is no doubt that morally you would be seen as being a nice guy, but the judge is only interested in the legal side of things. If you break the law no matter how good your morals are you will still be fined or even jailed. Firstly you m,ust comply with the laws as they are currently and even after the Governments proposed changes will still be the measure that everyone will be measured by. Therefore, firstly you must comply with the law as it is or will be laid down. Afterwards you can get onto the moral issues that come with life. You can't be procecuted for a lack of morals but you can be done for breaking the law.
bob youel  
#6 Posted : 03 May 2011 18:24:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

Irrespective of all else if a persons performance parameters are not set down in their employment contract and acted upon by senior management if a failure [or even a positive action takes place] is present nothing will happen so senior management must be brought on board first and demonstrate that inaction will not be tolerated & positive action will be rewarded. Thereafter managers/supervisors may act, noting that not all managers/supervisors can manage even though they may hold the position/title
KieranD  
#7 Posted : 03 May 2011 22:11:44(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

The dogmatic blinkered outdated pronouncements not only fail to add anything to HSG65 but, even more seriously, dramatise exactly what Lofstedt can be reliably predicted to highlight as illustrations of the inadequate level of performance of so many in safety management roles. Don't blame Lofstedt without facing up to the challenges he puts to the profession - and opens the doors to others more able and willing to address the problems raised by this question instead of merely chanting mantras.
walker  
#8 Posted : 04 May 2011 13:54:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Bob, Until such time when managers (particularly in larger companies) start getting jailed with far greater frequerncy that at present; I suggest that in practical terms, I'm correct & you suffer from wishful thinking. I very rarely mention laws/ regs etc when trying to get managers to do the right thing.
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