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philbrunton  
#1 Posted : 23 May 2011 10:48:07(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
philbrunton

We have had a number or ankle injuries recently and I was asked to look into Defensive Walking as a result. Does anyone have any information on Defensive Walking, presentation materials etc that you are willing to share and any feedback on how it went for you in your organisation?
A Kurdziel  
#2 Posted : 23 May 2011 11:36:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

What do you mean by Defensive walking? I have looked at Google and the term includes how to cross the road safety in big cities (might be useful for born again pedestrians who missed out on the green cross code), how to defend yourself with a walking stick or similar (known in the UK as aiding and abetting assault with an offensive weapon) or how to walk on rough terrain (which is something that I have not thought of but might be useful at our place).
Guru  
#3 Posted : 23 May 2011 11:43:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Guru

Is this the kinda thing your referring to? Defensive walking: Which is very similar to defensive driving in that it’s not always only about what you do but what others are doing and what’s happening around you. The basis tenants are: •If you drop something, then pick it up •If you spill something, then clean it up •Walk don’t run •Scan ahead of you for potential hazards; make sure your pathway is clear •Some experts predict that half of all slips, trips, and falls could be prevented with proper footwear—especially for those outside employees (OSHA has specific requirements depending on the type of job) •Limit the load you are carrying so that your view isn’t obstructed •Maintain 3 points of contact on stairs or ramps by using a handrail •Watch guest or customers to give them any assistance they might need •Exercise regularly to maintain strength, flexibility, and balance
philbrunton  
#4 Posted : 23 May 2011 12:23:24(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
philbrunton

Thanks for that, I have found some information on the net about this topic, however none refer to a buddy system used in defensive walking which is what was discussed here. I am a bit skeptical about it all so I am open to alternatives as well. Thanks for the information provided so far.
Williamx  
#5 Posted : 23 May 2011 12:50:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Williamx

I don't envy you Phil. This could be like Christmas come early for the 'elf and safety' headline writers.
Sdkfz181  
#6 Posted : 23 May 2011 13:12:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Sdkfz181

WOuld 'defensive walking' be the same as 'common sense' - like- Wear suitable footwear for the work situation Walk don't run Keep the workplace tidy Take some responsibility for your own actions when at work etc Has Friday come early? Is it me? Hope the press don't get hold of this thread.
Victor Meldrew  
#7 Posted : 23 May 2011 13:18:51(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

Vic Reeves will just love this for his pilot comedy show 'The Fun Police' ;-)
RayRapp  
#8 Posted : 23 May 2011 13:24:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

I've heard of Defensive Driving for the road and railways, but not for walking!! DD for railways was a load of old tosh dreamt up by some job's worth in order to lay the blame on train drivers for operational errors. Don't suppose DW is anything more than the Emperor's new clothes - what next?
Guru  
#9 Posted : 23 May 2011 13:28:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Guru

Im particularly interested in hearing about the buddy system used in defensive walking. Only walk in pairs? lol
m  
#10 Posted : 23 May 2011 13:28:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
m

Do you have to do 'active listening' when you do 'defensive walking'. At first I thought this was a reference to the (lack of) speed associated with Arsenal's back four given their crash after the Carling Cup defeat.
DNW  
#11 Posted : 23 May 2011 13:37:02(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DNW

I'm sorry but if we now need to learn people how to walk safely Im giving it up. If someone's daft enough not to look where they're going (and yes we all do it sometimes) and they injure themselves then so be it. This is definitely one of those situations which the press will devour with relish. I can just see the headlines: " Man sues company for unfair dismissal after tripping on his untied shoelace" I wont apologise for trivialising the subject matter, it's worthy.
NR  
#12 Posted : 23 May 2011 14:15:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
NR

This is something we have run campaigns on,Measures and procedures/practices include Dedicated "red" routes around the campus to follow for moving between buildings(these lead to pedestrian crossings etc) Reverse parking into spaces in the morning allowing for forward departure at the end of the day when leaving work-reduced chance of striking a pedestrian HV belts for hours of darkness Torches for use in poorly lit areas (Small to clip to pocket etc) Procedures for gritting/salting Non slip surfaces on red routes Before you quote the welfare regs some of the locations I've used as examples are unusual. Several breaks last year from falling on a similar level. The headline you trivialise isn't far from what we are facing currently
jay  
#13 Posted : 23 May 2011 14:16:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

Firstly, what is the environment you are referring to? Is it an offshore platform or similar and not the typical office building. Although it may seem to be trivial and OTT, a mix of distractions, badly designed walkways and rushing/haste together with multitasking can result in serious injuries--especially for organisations that use OSHA Recordable as their corporate reporting criteria. You can have soft campaigns encouraging all to use handrails, to stop rushing/multitasking and being distracted. Some may find this trivial, but our sister site in USA had a double whammy of 2 OSHA recordable when 2 employees were rushing towards each other in a right angled corridor , struck each other and both had stitches! This has nothing to do with teaching people how to walk, but about being aware of their surroundings--should be common sense, but it is not--especially with extensive use of mobile phones and i-pods!
Sdkfz181  
#14 Posted : 23 May 2011 14:32:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Sdkfz181

Jay - fair comment, but nevertheless see my previous answer! Such presentations and programmes in my view and experience de-motivate people from taking h&s seriously, instead of giving people credit and encouragement. As previous people need to be aware of their own responsibilities and how to try and improve the working environment, design/location of walkways etc etc Too many h&s programmes like 'Defensive walking' treat people like idiots. They are not - most of the time. Such programmes are usually driven by our US cousins, always scared of being sued for the trivial and the odd ball incidents. Treat people like adults and you will get better co-operation and follow on improvements.
philbrunton  
#15 Posted : 23 May 2011 14:34:54(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
philbrunton

The locations in question are offshore installations, there are many hazards and distractions going on all around you all the time as you will appreciate. I am quite certain that the last thing we want to do is take the fun out of work and be seen as "elf and safety gone mad" again. One of our managers heard about defensive walking from the chemical plants industry and wondered if this was something that could be adopted... Thanks again for your input.
SP900308  
#16 Posted : 23 May 2011 14:59:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SP900308

philbrunton, Did said manager not provide you with an overview of what 'defensive walking' involved, or just leave you to find out for yourself? 'defensive talking' if you ask me;)
Graham Bullough  
#17 Posted : 23 May 2011 15:11:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

Phil B - It would have helped readers and responders if you had mentioned offshore installations as the types of locations involved at the outset of this topic. Please don't take this comment too personally - it's intended generally for posters of new topics who use obscure topic headings and/or don't properly explain what information they are seeking or sharing. One example of the latter comprises people who paste a website link in their opening message without saying what the website is about. As a diversion/evolution of the main topic here, an earlier reference to "buddies" prompts me to mention what could be described as "defensive departures". Though I've never used this particular term before, it's something I've advocated for years as a generic risk assessment/management topic for my employer's schools regarding the last person to leave each evening. Basically, it's about communication between employees so that, where feasible, two or more people arrange each day to lock up and leave together rather than leaving one solitary person to do so and perhaps being at risk of from possible assailants, muggers, thieves, etc. Allied to this practice are the measures of having good external lighting (controlled by time delay switches in some cases) and also good sight lines between the final exit door and vehicle parking area, etc. The theme can be applied to any premises, not just schools, where employees tend to open/lock up on their own.
NR  
#18 Posted : 23 May 2011 15:45:36(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
NR

Is there a prevalence of people being attacked when locking up? Is defensive departures a modern term for lone working?
A Kurdziel  
#19 Posted : 23 May 2011 16:05:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

As per Graham's comments Could posters in future explain the context in which they are making inquires? Oil rigs are specific sort of an environment and the sort of things that you can do there are different from what the rest of us are talking about. The point of IOSH and this forum is that it brings together ALL SORTS of H&S professionals working in everything from construction to offices to farms etc. please in future do not assume that everybody is working in your area or environment. Thank you.
Kate  
#20 Posted : 23 May 2011 16:12:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

To be fair to Phil, "Offshore" does appear below his name in his list of groups, therefore it is not entirely unexpected that he might be talking about an offshore workplace.
decimomal  
#21 Posted : 23 May 2011 16:21:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

Well spotted Kate.
achrn  
#22 Posted : 24 May 2011 16:44:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

NR wrote:
Is there a prevalence of people being attacked when locking up?
It happens at some sites I've worked on. One was an inner city North of England site where site portacabins were set up on a disused railway line which was cut into the side of hill, so it had a steep embankment to one side and level access to the other. The local yoof (here we're talking 8-12 years-olds, I'd guess) would stand at the top of the embankment and lob stones down on anyone on the site, and it was a problem for the last person there trying to lock up. If you tried to scramble up the embankment they were long gone by the time you reached the top, if you drove round (about half a mile by road) the concern was that they'd be down in the offices helping themselves by the time you got to the vantage point. We simply adopted the practice of never arriving or leaving alone - when it's time to leave someone drives round to the top of the embankment, the yoof scarper, then that person stays there until the other person has locked up and cleared site. When arriving, meet up elsewhere and one person stops at the vantage point to see off yoof while the other person drives round to the site to open up. I wouldn't invent a name for it though. Self preservation or (dare I say it) common sense seem adequate descriptors.
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