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stevenb  
#1 Posted : 17 June 2011 14:34:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
stevenb

I appreciate this is a grey area, but what qualifications are generally recognised/accepted to help deem an individual competent to carry out 3rd party fire risk assessments? I have a NEBOSH Dip, am a DGSA plus 10 years H&S Experience, and currently working towards Chartered membership of IOSH. I would have said (hoped) this was adequate??? However a colleague has stated that membership of the Institute of Fire Engineers would be required. Your thoughts would be appreciated.....please.
firesafety101  
#2 Posted : 17 June 2011 14:49:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

What a coincidence. I was just about to open up a new topic when I saw this one. This link is hot off the press today and may just answer your question? Fire risk assessment competency criteria published 16 June 2011 http://www.info4fire.com...=1506&OmniLink_Label
bob youel  
#3 Posted : 17 June 2011 15:04:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

Another club has been born; happy birthday! Competence is not in place just by belonging to a particular club, nor having a certain qualification it is the combination of many factors and an individuals personal traits that = competence That said there are many very good fire people out there as there are H&S people who are very competent who are not members of any particular group & v verse I would not let such articles put U off but, as in all cases, ensure that U talk to people to confirm your thoughts as U progress with the RA
firesafety101  
#4 Posted : 17 June 2011 15:10:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Bob this is not a new Club. If you read the draft document you will see that it does not recommend membership of any 3rd party, just tries to explain competence regarding fra.
MB1  
#5 Posted : 17 June 2011 16:18:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MB1

Interesting read, although my limitations are towards small dwellings with few persons and low fire hazards & risks.... I was intrigued that not 1 of the long list of contributions mentioned anything regarding likelihood and preventing risk of arson. I'm led to believe this is a major source of fires?
firesafety101  
#6 Posted : 17 June 2011 21:13:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

MB1 you could take this as embracing all types of cause of fire as mentioned in the guidance documents? "Appropriate guidance The fire risk assessor should have knowledge of the suites of guidance produced by the applicable government departments together with other guidance produced by industry, standards making bodies, etc. that apply to the premises on which the fire risk assessment is being carried out."
messyshaw  
#7 Posted : 18 June 2011 19:03:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
messyshaw

It's a nightmare for businesses to find a competent assessor so it's often based on Google pot luck & prices. This document allows customers to check that the assessor is up to the job by perhaps providing the assessor a list of competency requirements and getting them to sign an agreement that the person attending meets these requirements. It also provides an employer some guidelines when compiling a person specification for an employment opportunity. You could also argue that it allows assessors to consider/check their own competencies - never a bad idea. Indeed, I was asking myself whether I was competent in each area as I went through the list. I found that although working in Scotland & NI, I admit to being rusty on the definitions in the legislation that applies in those areas, and I am a little rusty in the area of smoke control. Useful stuff for me when considering future CPD ideas. Overall, I reckon it's sound advice to punters, as there's precious little help available to help a RP select an assessor. It's a shame that HMG didn't produce such guidance when the RRO and other legislation were enacted
firesafety101  
#8 Posted : 18 June 2011 22:18:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

You are right messey, I did the same as you when I read through. I don't know what I don't know so this helps me to know what I need to know. Not a bad yardstick.
martinw  
#9 Posted : 19 June 2011 09:39:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
martinw

Messy - not surprising that some aspects are rusty: as we all know, if you do not use the information regularly, it still sits in the brain somewhere, but is more difficult to have instant recall - use it or lose it, as it were. Is a register of fire consultants the way as with H&S? In short, do you think that the document you were discussing is 'good' enough to bring definition of competency to a position whereby a register of consultants is possible?
messyshaw  
#10 Posted : 19 June 2011 15:39:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
messyshaw

It all comes back to the fact that the FSO doesn't require an assessor to be competent. It's allows the RP some choice of how to comply, from a DIY job, to allowing a mate to help, and I actually quite like that freedom of choice If (say for the sake of argument) an amendment to the FSO does make it a requirement to use a 'listed' assessor, then what about Mr & Mrs Smith who run a corner shop and off licence? Is it reasonable for a very low risk premises to have to pay a 3rd party, when Mr Smith was formerly a surveyor/builder, or has a brother who is competent to help? Perhaps the way forward would be to have a legal threshold - similar to the Fire Precautions Act -which somehow draws a line in the sand by defining higher risk premises*. Only those premises must use a competent assessor and the RP must define in the FRA how he decided that the assessor was competent. This still allows the RP to choose someone from a register, or use another person that he (the RP) believes is competent - perhaps by referring the skills of that individual to a baseline list similar to that we are discussing on this thread. *Examples of higher risk might include medium to large sleeping risks (or risks under medium to large sleeping risks) and those with large quantities of dangerous substances. MartinW. You are right about the old grey matter being whittled away by age. Mrs Messy has now written my name & address on a tag inside the back of my coat in case I forget where I live. But will I remember the tag is there?!!! :)
JohnW  
#11 Posted : 21 June 2011 14:18:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

stevenb wrote:
I have a NEBOSH Dip, am a DGSA plus 10 years H&S Experience, and currently working towards Chartered membership of IOSH. I would have said (hoped) this was adequate??? However a colleague has stated that membership of the Institute of Fire Engineers would be required.
The article says: “specific applied knowledge and skills of an appropriately qualified specialist” "Knowledge can be obtained by academic study, training, working alongside others, short courses, continuing professional development or any combination of two or more of these". So even just these two - working alongside others, short courses - can 'qualify' you for 'simple buildings' ? I'm OK then !!! JohnW
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